Scary 22 Juli 1944 Wound Badge Repro

[Brian S]

Come on Pascal, what discussion about a fake badge?

Craig has opened the door to comments. Protecting Craig from his own posts seems...

Badge fake.

Me no buy fillers.

Price high.

Close thread.

[I Marotto]

Come on Pascal, what discussion about a fake badge?

Craig has opened the door to comments. Protecting Craig from his own posts seems...

Badge fake.

Me no buy fillers.

Price high.

Close thread.

Ian

[MH184]

Brian I agree with you 101%, is there perhaps some conflict of interest as Craig is a sponsor ?


I can't speak for others i.e moderators or Seba, but the motive of this thread is the 'fake' and it is open surely for sensible discussion. As in the past !?

Kind regards,

Marcus

[Gerd Becker]

Gerd Becker: Any comment that beings "with all due respect" is usually followed by comments that show no respect. Do you mean to tell me that a mint, cased, and boxed WWI Iron Cross First Class with flawless paint, wonderful patina, and a 3 line personalization is worth $500? You tell me, sir, where I can buy ones like the one I am selling for that price, and I will buy as many as you care to sell me. You should not be irresponsibly throwing around prices such as 300% without having the data to back up your claims. Find me another one like it for the $500 you so proudly claim that this Iron Cross is worth, and I, and about 500 other people, will be fighting to buy it.

Furthermore Mr. Becker, why do you quote my prices, and then misidentify my items? You call my $1595 cross an EK when it is so much more than that. You call my "$2450 navy badge" an "Eboat" when it is a perfect, mint, first pattern by schwerin - I dare you to find another copy for sale at even $2200 that compares. You call my "995 dollar badge" a "Minesweeper" but conveniently leave out the fact that it is a in the original distributor case which is in mint condition. And tell you what - you ask the buyers of these items in five years if they minded paying a little extra for something truly unique and beautiful, and see what they say.

You know what? If you want one of those items and you want to pay what your magic crystal ball tells you they should be worth, YOU go to a show, YOU spend your entire day beating the pavement for items like this, which do NOT fall into your lap, you spend the time and effort it takes to run a full time business, and then you can tell me or any other dealer that I'm greedy. I'm high-priced, and yes, I am a bit greedy. So what - youre greedy to to want a mint Eboat 1st pattern for $1500. The difference between my greed and other people's greed is that it is not practiced at the expense of anybody, and I do not compromise my integrity to achieve success in business. How dare you, sir. You owe me an apology.

For others who care to hear it, to me there are two legitimate methods to collecting - one is to be an opportunistic collector, and to simply take a pile of money and buy the best item you can find for that pile, for the best "bargain price." This is one legitimate way of collecting, a way that I collected daggers. You lose the luxury of saying "now I want an Army Uniform" and then "now I want a Navy Uniform." You take what you can get when you can get it. I collected that way. It allowed me to buy a Postal Leader for $1200. I respect that method, and there is a place for it. It allows those with more time than money to assemble a great collection at a sub-retail price. Then, for those for whom time is in short supply, and who want to seek a specific item for their collection in the ORDER THEY CHOOSE, there is the full retail venue. These individuals say to themselves 'It's time for the best Eboat I can find" and I don't care what it costs, within reason. Obviously, they wouldn't feel comfortable paying $5000 for one. But guaranteed, if they offered to pay $3000 on the forums, they'd probably have the best Eboat in the world, and several to choose from at that price. Don't criticise me, Mr. Becker, because I cater to the 2nd type of collector and you are the first type.

I'm sure I've made an enemy out of you now, by coming down so hard on you for your irresponsible comments. However, do the big thing, read over what you have said, read what I have to say, and then apologize. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. I hope to find a friend in you after this is all over. However, I can't be a good man in everyone's book.

Mr. Gottlieb,

ok, please accept my apology for the "greedy"-comment. I agree, that wasn´t nice.

i have never seen a (even engraved AND cased AND boxed) EK1 1914 for that price, and i doubt, i ever will again, not even in 5 years and not even on shows. I have seen a lot of "engraved" crosses and an engraving doesn´t mean anything today, at least it doesn´t affect the price that much anymore. And the minesweeper with the "extraordinare" box isn´t that special, that it deserves such a price. These are not more special than others, i have seen. You may see them as "unique" items, but IMO they are NOT. They are maybe nice and mint, but thats not the only one. Of course you can ask a top-price for these badges, as they are doubtless beautiful. But that much is just not fair.

However, its your business and i shouldn´t care and calmed down. If there are people out there, who pay that much money for a common award... Nice for you.

BUT... I think, this is NOT good for this hobby and you are increasing the prices with this. I have no problem with the fact, that you want to make money, but when Dealer X sees, that you have sold for these prices, they will jump on the wagon soon.

And no, you have not made an enemy out of me. We are grown up and should be able to discuss such topics. I still appreciate your efforts for the collector-community.

I think, we just agree, that we disagree.

best,
Gerd

[Larry L]

Gentlemen,

Craig :If I have offended you about my jokes of 45$ price, my apologies.
I know, It is the sellers business to state the price, period.

I stated earlier that on the front of that badge are signs to spot it from the original. I'd say that the numbers and letters are not exactly what the original should be, do you agree? (For example, number 9 is too "fat")

L

[upbeek]

wb

craig david~crazy paving this a an amazing thread keep it going!

[Tom M]

Gentlemen,

Craig :If I have offended you about my jokes of 45$ price, my apologies.
I know, It is the sellers business to state the price, period.

I stated earlier that on the front of that badge are signs to spot it from the original. I'd say that the numbers and letters are not exactly what the original should be, do you agree? (For example, number 9 is too "fat")

L

Why all the apologies all of a sudden? At the end of the day, we are the people who keep Craig and others in business. We have a right to complain, it's commonly known as freedom of speech. You have to be flexible in a business and listen to peoples (customers') concerns. If you don't, you'll lose your customers. It's as simple as that.
Prices I agree are the sellers' business. But raising a point on this ridiculous price inflation does not condone repulsive and offensive comments.

[upbeek]

wb

hello tom that was no negative

[Mark S.]

I find it silly trying to define the one degree of seperation between a quality fake badge and one of lesser quality. At the end of the day, the badge would still be a fake. There is no satisfaction in owning a fake badge of any type.

Nicholas Morigi has fake 20 July wound badges for 33 GBP and the case for 25 GBP. Or, you can go to the Third Reich Depot and buy a fake gold 20 July WB for $20,000 (of course advertised as real) that is identical to the one Craig is selling as a reproduction for $1500.

Legitimate dealers selling reproductions that are advertised as such is nothing new. If Craig thinks he has enough swing to sell a fake badge for what he is asking, all the more power to him. That is called free enterprise, and this wonderful country I live in is based on such notions. In the end, it will only sell for what the market will bear, and if someone thinks this badge is worth that kind of money, so be it.

Craig didnt create a market for high end fakes, he is only capitalizing on it. There are people who would love to have a post war Souval RK, isnt the market for those a bit higher than $40? Quality PLM copies have been circulating for years. What do they cost?

You may be offended by his asking prices, but that is an emotional reaction. I feel the same way when I go to Kai Winkers site, or buy popcorn at the movies. (Well, maybe the movies arent a good comparison. I dont have a kid tugging at my sleeve at Kai's)...but still, if I choose to pay thoose kind of prices, that is no one business but my own, and the person selling it to me.

I think back to stuff I see on the estand that is insanely priced. I think "Maybe I should tell the guy he is asking to much..." but while I am considering such thoughts (which I dismiss because it isnt my business) it usually becomes "on hold" for someone.

If you are a good enough salesman to pull this off Craig, you should consider real estate....

[upbeek]

wb

amen

[Gerd Becker]

Why all the apologies all of a sudden? At the end of the day, we are the people who keep Craig and others in business. We have a right to complain, it's commonly known as freedom of speech. You have to be flexible in a business and listen to peoples (customers') concerns. If you don't, you'll lose your customers. It's as simple as that.
Prices I agree are the sellers' business. But raising a point on this ridiculous price inflation does not condone repulsive and offensive comments.

Just trying to stay civil, Tom. I agree with you 100%.

best,
Gerd

[Larry L]

Dear Mr. Mumby,
I don't know Mr Gottlieb so I can't say if he was offended of my remarks at the beginning of this thread.
I guess Mr. Gottlieb is still human, even though he is a militaria dealer and an apology won't hurt anyone.

I am quite sure that we will see that those items discussed in this thread will be sold in some time.

L

Why all the apologies all of a sudden? At the end of the day, we are the people who keep Craig and others in business. We have a right to complain, it's commonly known as freedom of speech. You have to be flexible in a business and listen to peoples (customers') concerns. If you don't, you'll lose your customers. It's as simple as that.
Prices I agree are the sellers' business. But raising a point on this ridiculous price inflation does not condone repulsive and offensive comments.

[Tom M]

Dear Mr. Mumby,
I don't know Mr Gottlieb so I can't say if he was offended of my remarks at the beginning of this thread.
I guess Mr. Gottlieb is still human, even though he is a militaria dealer and an apology won't hurt anyone.

I am quite sure that we will see that those items discussed in this thread will be sold in some time.

L

I know my friend. Politeness will get you a long way.

P.S. Is it national letter week? I keep on being called Mr. Mumby when I am 14 years old

[upbeek]

wb

i think people who sell items under lalse pretenses,should by right be put in the village stocks and pelted with wrotten sugar beet,now craig has held up his hands and said yes it fake.this shows he has a spine,does anybody agree his credentials have been destroyed by the sound of it ,we should have a vote to see how many members will do business with old craig

[Mark S.]

Absolutly not. This thread was never a witchhunt, and it wont start now. Craig advertised this as a repro to begin with. Please read the thread in its entirety before commenting.

If your reply was "lost in translation", my humblest apologies.