Blitz Brooch on Green Enamel?

[jonnyssfj]

Hello sirs, I am trying to find out who wore the Blitz Brooch with Green Enamel as oppose to the one with Black Enamel. This is a question from my girlfriend who is putting together a Helferin Uniform and would like to know the difference between colours.

Many thanks in advance.
Jonny

[magdaheinkel]

*Bump* Anyone know?

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Jonny,

As far as I know, members of the Nachrichtenhelferinnen des Heeres wore cravat brooches having black enamel and a yellow signal blitz. I am not aware of any originals having green enamel.

Best regards,
Tom

[magdaheinkel]

Many thanks Tom, just as we thought! Heaven knows why they reproduce this brooch in green! Is it the same for the signals patches also?

[Tom Yanacek]

Many thanks Tom, just as we thought! Heaven knows why they reproduce this brooch in green! Is it the same for the signals patches also?

Hello Traudl,

I think the ladies did wear dark green cloth patches with a yellow blitz on their sleeve and sometimes on the cap. Maybe that is why the reproducers also created a green brooch pin i.e., to match the cloth insignia. But whereas a green cloth insignia is correct, a green brooch pin is not as far as I know. The brooch pins were supposed to be black to match the black cravat that they were worn on. I'm sure that someday the reproducers will manufacture cravat brooches in every color of the rainbow.

Do you have the Osprey book on World War 2 German Women's Auxiliary Services? It might be of some use to you.

http://www.amazon.com/German-Womens-...8962995&sr=8-1


Best regards,
Tom

[magdaheinkel]

Yes I have that book, thank you. I have ordered the Angolia Uniforms and Traditions of the German Army (vol.2) so am hoping that will give me some futher information as I have also been told - and seen photos, of original Helferin signals patches in black (one attached to a side cap) - so this makes me wonder if the osprey information could be incorrect, or perhaps both insignia colours are correct. Very confusing!

[Tom Yanacek]

Yes I have that book, thank you. I have ordered the Angolia Uniforms and Traditions of the German Army (vol.2) so am hoping that will give me some futher information as I have also been told - and seen photos, of original Helferin signals patches in black (one attached to a side cap) - so this makes me wonder if the osprey information could be incorrect, or perhaps both insignia colours are correct. Very confusing!

Hello Traudl,

I have a feeling that both dark green and black cloth patches may have been used by the ladies. Here is my thought (and I am only guessing here): At first, the ladies might have used the same exact patch that the men in the regular army signals used i.e., a dark green oval with a yellow blitz. Then eventually, as stockpiles were depleted, a new insignia was made specifically for the ladies, having a black background. This does seem to make sense because most of the other insignia worn by Helferin had a black background. But I still don't think they used dark green cravat brooches. But you are correct, this is a very complex subject. That is why we need you on the forum as our resident expert in this very specialized field.

Best regards,
Tom

[magdaheinkel]

Hahaha - Tom, I will do my very best! There is a whole chapter dedicated to Helferin in this volume of the German Army book - hopefully it will come soon and I will be much wiser!

I do like your suggestion of the early war/late war scenario. My feelings were the same, but reversed in that I wondered if they had the black patches earlier in the war and then moved to the men's green trades patches later when finances became tighter. They seem to have worn a lot of men's uniform towards the end of the war, a case of whatever you could get your hands on!

We shall see!

[Tom Yanacek]

I do like your suggestion of the early war/late war scenario. My feelings were the same, but reversed in that I wondered if they had the black patches earlier in the war and then moved to the men's green trades patches later when finances became tighter. They seem to have worn a lot of men's uniform towards the end of the war, a case of whatever you could get your hands on!

We shall see!

Hello Traudl,

Your "theory in reverse" also seems like a possible explanation and equally logical, IMO. Looking forward to whatever information you come up with. Please post your findings, if you don't mind.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Traudl,

Also checked in Badges & Insignia of the Third Reich 1933-1945 by Brian Leigh Davis. An excellent reference work showing a wide range of insignia but, unfortunately, only three things pertaining to Nachrichtenhelferinnen des Heeres.

The signal blitz is shown in color illustration Plate 46, number 4: It is identified as a signal blitz worn by the ranks of Stabsführerin and Oberstabsführerin in the Nachrichtenhelferinnen d. Heeres.

The eagle insignia is shown in color illustration Plate 2, number 4: It is identified as a breast eagle national emblem worn by Nachrichtenhelferinnen d. Heeres, from the rank of Nachrichten-Helferin to Nachrichten-Haupthelferin.

The Nachrichten-Helferin at work can be seen on page 159.

Best regards,
Tom

[magdaheinkel]

Thanks for the information Tom!

Well, the book has arrived and it seems both colours are correct for the patch - it doesn't go into the whens and whys, but states that both black and a bluish dark green colour were worn. It also states that only the later colour were piped in lemon-yellow or bordered by a cord for leader personnel.

It's a very interesting book actually! Absolutely dying to get my hands on the sister-chapter in the Luftwaffe version of the series.

And you are absolutely correct about the green enamel brooch - it is pure fantasy!

[reichenberg]

Is this the enamel type? Item 21665 on this dealers website (do a code search in the top right hand corner of the page).

http://www.hiscoll.com/home.php

[Tom Yanacek]

Thanks for the information Tom!

Well, the book has arrived and it seems both colours are correct for the patch - it doesn't go into the whens and whys, but states that both black and a bluish dark green colour were worn. It also states that only the later colour were piped in lemon-yellow or bordered by a cord for leader personnel.

It's a very interesting book actually! Absolutely dying to get my hands on the sister-chapter in the Luftwaffe version of the series.

And you are absolutely correct about the green enamel brooch - it is pure fantasy!

Thanks for the update, Traudl!

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Is this the enamel type? Item 21665 on this dealers website (do a code search in the top right hand corner of the page).

http://www.hiscoll.com/home.php

Hello,

Yes, that looks to be an original and very scarce Helferin cravat brooch. However, that one would be a later type, finished in enamel or lacquer paint. The early ones were in vitreous enamel, which is actually fused, powdered glass.

The image posted below is of the early type with vitreous (porcelain) enamel:

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Here is a direct link to the painted version from Hiscoll Military Antiques:

the front:

http://www.hiscoll.com/shop/viewphoto.php?x=2

and the reverse:

http://www.hiscoll.com/shop/viewphoto.php?x=1