Ground Dug Experts, Help Please.

[J C Gray]

Whilst surfing, I came accross these two medals on a site which describes them as being ground dug. I know that there are some members of this forum who are well versed in ground dug items, so , as I know very little about this particular field, I would be very interested to hear any opinions on the feasability of these two medals actually being excavated in Silesia & Kurland respectively.
The reason I ask, is not with regard to a prospective purchase, but, in fact with regard to my ongoing research into the relatively misunderstood world of the SS-Dienstauszeichnung (my own particular primary collecting/study focus) ie. if the following examples are adjudged or proven to be original pieces, it could open up a whole new avenue of investigation for me and basically rewrite the so-called rules on this most underrated & misconstrued of Third Reich awards.
I know that a forum member himself, excavated an example of the 4 year SS-Service Award at some point last year, but I have been unable to find the relevant thread and I do not remember seeing the medal with the concretion removed. I therefore, would be most grateful to know if this type of corrosion and damage etc. is constent with a medal that had been in the ground for 60 plus years.

[J C Gray]

Second example...

[keifer kahn]

Hi Jc,

I am a collector of ground dug items.

I would expect with a "groundug" tombak based medal to have a high level of green verdigris, as tombak has high a level of copper.

Im not seeing a lot of green.

Im also not a fan of the stipling either.

Regards KK

[J C Gray]

Thanks for the reply Kiefer, it was the stippling that had caught my eye also. These 4 year SS Awards with the (alleged) Deschler type lettering & P&L type jump ring coupled with the coarse, pebbled stippling, seem to be popping up everywhere at the moment. I have never been a fan of this type either and whilst I did think it too much of a coincidence that 2 such 'ground dug' medals should appear at the same time I was still willing to keep an open mind if these proved to be as claimed by the seller.

[keifer kahn]

I actually dislike these the more i look at them.

The base metal looks like a crude zink based alloy and from the corrosion characteristics, it is a modern zink.

Also Tombak being effectively another from of Brass, should have a discernible level of very dark brown, almost black patina ,as well as the green of leaching copper.The only black i see are the remains of the finish.

It may of been heavily cleaned and the patina removed but we cant escape that crappy gray colour to the base metal.

IMO these are an attempt at rorting collectors.

[J C Gray]

Thanks for the metallurgic insight.
There are a few different versions of this medal going around at the minute, some are better quality than others, but they all have this type of stippling. I assume that the specimens above started out like this one, due to the fact that the crappy jump ring has conveniently "rotted" away in both cases.