Spanish Wound Medals For The Legion Condor Era

[W. C. Stump]

The more I study the awards bestowed to the members of the Legion Condor during Spain's Civil War the more new information is brought to my attention that calls for the records books to be rewritten. The German volunteers who made up the Condor Legion were awarded the German 1936 -1939 Wound badge for German Volunteers in the Spanish Civil War of Freedom for receiving combat related wounds. These badges have been fully documented. However the Spanish issued a wound medal for wounds recieved in combat also. It has been the established belief that none of these medals, "The Medal for Suffering" were not awarded to German combat personnel. Even Roger James Bender in his reference book LEGION CONDOR, UNIFORMS, ORGANIZATIONS AND HISTORY, on page 224, states "The Medal for Suffering was not awarded to German combat personnel." According to Juan Jose Erce Montilla, a contributor to my research and to the forum, informed me that acording to Spanish sources, at least 206 of those medals were awarded to German soldiers during the Spanish Civil War. Below is the Medal for Suffering, photograph compliments of Helmuth Weitze and the following scan is on a ribbon bar with the ribbon for this medal attached.

The next question that arises is that if a member of the Legion Condor was wounded and received the German 1936-1939 Wound Badge would he have received the Spanish counter part? Also, would he wear both medals or just the ribbon bar indicating he had received the Spanish Medal for Suffering after his service as a volunteer in Spain had ended?

Any assistance will be appreciated.

[W. C. Stump]

RIBBON BAR WITH SPANISH MEDAL FOR SUFFERING

Compliment of Helmuth Weitze is a ribbon bar for the Spanish Medal for Suffering.

[Angel Farré]

According to Spanish orders, the medals that could be awarded to members of the Legion Condor are those refering bravery and the conmemorative of the campaign, no award for being wounded is allowed to the Legion Condor members, but the model you show is the model to be awarded to foreigners, EM and NCO, for being P.O.W.s, the Spanish "Medalla de Sufrimientos por la Patria" was institued on November 6th 1.814, and the model you show is that being in use between this date and the new order dated March 11th, 1.941. I don't know if evera member of the LC was taken prisioner, but if not this combination is only posible if the soldier served under the Spanish flag during the Civil War and them returned to Germany to serve under its flag in WW II. If you need more info let me know.

Angel

[W. C. Stump]

I AM CONFUSED

Angle, according to a fellow countryman of yours, Juan Jose Erce Montilla, his source of information lists at least 206 members of the Condor Legion received these medals. He stated. "According to Spanish sources, at least 206 of those medals were awarded to German soldiers. The ribbon is yellow (wounded by any cause different to enemy fire) with red-yellow-red stripes of the Spanish
flag (the recipient was a foreigner). Silver medals were for enlisted men; officers received enameled gilt medals." If this is correct information, could the Germans have been P. O. W.'s? I am most interested in this award and the conflicting information has me confused. I would appreciate any additional information you may provide.

[W. C. Stump]

SPANISH SOURCE

I asked Mr. Juan Jose Erce Montilla what the source of his informationm was and he said it came from "La Ayuda Alemana a España 1936-1939". R. Hidalgo Salazar. Editorial San Martin. Madrid, 1975. ISBN 84-7140-103-7. Pages 225-226."

He also wrote the following about the medal. "

Colors for the ribbon, acording to 1941 regulations were: -Yellow with red stripes: Wounded by enemy fire. One red X for each wound. -YELLOW: Wounded by any other cause. -Black: for KIA relatives. -Orange: POWS. -Blue: Captive in red (republican) zone. Spanish red-yellow-red colors were added to foreigners' ribbons.

Source: "Condecoraciones Militares Españolas" Luis Gravalos Gonzalez, Jose Luis Calvo Perez. Editorial San Martin. Madrid, 1988. ISBN 84-7140-266-1. Pages 218 and 384.

Note that soldiers taken prisioner in action received medals with orange ribbons. Blue ribbons were for people who were arrested for their political ideology. Also bear in mind that enlisted men received silver medals and officers gilt, enameled ones.

Don't mind about medals being instituted as late as 1941... Spanish bureaucracy has been always very slow. Angel Salamanca, a Blue Divison veteran who spent 11 years of captivity in Russia, was presented with the Military Medal for his Russian front service in the 90's !!! Also, Spain was almost completely destroyed after a three year civil war, so I think the reconstruction of the country was more important than the awarding of medals.

Several German LC soldiers were taken prisioner. Hans Schmoller-Haldy, a fighter pilot, was one of them. You can see a list of some unlucky LC soldiers who were taken prisioner and executed in Karl Riess and Hans Ring LC book."

Juan has applied for membership to the forum and will soon be able to post. He is a student of military history and will be an asset to the Wehrmacht Forum.

[W. C. Stump]

A reader spotted some new information concerning the awarding of the Medal For Suffering to German troops of the Condor Legion. Here is the information. I would like to pass it along to lour members interested in the Condor Legion.

"Hello Bill,
I have found this wehrpass in Gordons Medals:
http://www.cocollector.co.uk/
with this interesting annotations as described
by the seller:

Emil Knodler, N.C.O. Luftwaffe Flak. CONDOR LEGION. 1. Small arms licence,
(Waffenschein) 6.1.44. Civilian issue with identity photo in civilian dress.
2. Luftwaffe Wehrpass, dated 11.8.36. identity photo in civilian dress.
Entitled to: Spanish Cross in Silver, (without swords - one of only 327 awarded).
Luftwaffe Flak War Badge (as the award date of 1.8.37 predates the institution of
this badge by some years it is supposed that it refers to the cloth-type sleeve trade-badge),
Spanish Lagryd Roja del Merito Militar, medalla de la Campana, medall Sufrimientos por la Patria
(suffering for the country = wound badge). He served from Nov. 1936 to March 1939 with Flak-Rgt. 25
in Germany (Ludwigsburg) but was detached to Sonderstab W (the cover-name for the Legion Condor)
from March 1938 to March 1939, active in the Spanish Civil War where he served with Flak Unit F/88.
After his return from Spain he served from Sept. 1939 to March 1941 in I./Res. Flak.Abt.. 501
in the Munich area. He was discharged 8.3.41 because his civilian trade of Toolmaker had become
indispensable to the German industrial war effort, and he worked for the rest of the war for the
firm Rathenburger A.G. in Munich. (As a recipient of a Spanish Wound Badge, it is highly probably
that he was entitled to the German 1st type for the Legion Condor also, but that is not confirmed
by a Wehrpass entry). The prestige and rarity of his medals and awards suggests a distinguished
record, and the fact of his discharge suggests a measure of disability from wounds."

[Angel Farré]

Every day one know something more, till this thread I think, and all the info I have pointed to it, that no Legion Condor member was awarded this medal and has no right to receive it. I wait anxiously new info about this.

Thanks Mr. Stump

Angel

[panzerpionier]

Another evidence

W. C. Stump wrote

According to Juan Jose Erce Montilla, a contributor to my research and to the forum, informed me that acording to Spanish sources, at least 206 of those medals were awarded to German soldiers during the Spanish Civil War.

That's me... it seems that I can not stay anonymous... anyway, who cares?

Well, if you have a look at Bender's LC book, page 227, you'll see that German soldiers were actually eligible for the "Medalla de Sufrimientos por la Patria". Note also that German official papers used the Spanish medal names, not the German translation Bender uses (incorrectly, IMHO) in his book.

I'm sorry, but can not post the page. Perhaps anybody else can.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to know the exact awarding date of Herr Knodler's Medal for Suffering.

Best regards

[W. C. Stump]

WELCOME TO THE WEHRMACHT FORUM

I am sorry that I "blew" your cover, but you are a very serious student of military history and I thank you for all the assistance you have provided me in my research. You will find this forum to be a great source of information and the members are most friendly and willing to exchange information about our interests.

[W. C. Stump]

DOCUMENT LISTING THE MEDAL FOR SUFFERING

Here is page 227 from roger James Bender's book, LEGION CONDOR - UNIFORMS, ORGANIZATIONS AND HISTORY. This document contradicts Mr. Bender when he stated, on page 224, "The Medal for Suffering was not awarded to German combat personnel."

[panzerpionier]

Thank you for posting Bender's book page. Now we have three evidences that support the awarding of the medal to LC members:

-Weitze's website ribbon bar and medal.

-Emil Knodler's Wehrpass.

-Document on page 224 of Bender's LC book.

Another question arises: Foreigners issue of Medal for Suffering was instituted as late as 1941, and it appeared on a German official document dated 1941 ("Nr 12443/41 (5, IV E)"), had recipients to wait two years to receive their medals? It would be very interesting to know the exact awarding date of Herr Knodler's Medal for Suffering.


On the other hand, Mr Stump wrote:

A reader spotted some new information concerning the awarding of the Medal For Suffering to German troops of the Condor Legion. Here is the information. I would like to pass it along to lour members interested in the Condor Legion...

In my humble opinion, you should have credited my friend Fran, germanuniforms forum contributor, for providing that info.

http://daggers.infopop.net/2/OpenTop...3&m=1473067786

He sent me the the ribbon bar and medal pics you posted above, so I think he actually started this interesting subject.


Best regards

[W. C. Stump]

FRAM

I had no idea as to the identity of "FRAN". The information supplied was noted as being not mine, but supplied by by a reader. If "FRAN" from the other forum is your friend thank him for the information. I personally thanked him on the other forum.
Maybe you should invite FRAN to join the Wehrmacht Forum as he would be warmly welcomed.

TO FRAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a super find and a wealth of new information. Thanks for pointing it out it to my attention and to the readers.

[W. C. Stump]

DOCUMENT FOR MEDAL

Panzerpionier sent a scan of the presentation document for the Medal of Suffering.

[W. C. Stump]

DOCUMENT

THE DOCUMENT.

[panzerpionier]

Thanks to Mr Stump for posting the pic.

It's taken from Riess & Ring Legion Condor book, page 283.

The recipient is Hermann Hogeback, a K/88 pilot and RKT in WWII. There's a pic of him in Saez and Calero's excellent article about DKiG, http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/germ...ipients/da.htm but unfortunately he doesn't wear his Spanish wound medal.

The awarding date confuses me... Medals for Suffering for foreigners were instituted in 1941... what kind of medal could he receive?

Best regards