Funky medal bar?

[Wik]

Hey all. Here are some pics of a medal bar I found...Is it possible to have Westwall and Eastern Front medal? On top of that I noticed the pin on the back of the bar was a flat "cut off" type, which Tom had said before is entirely incorrect (or at least many times if I recall what he said!) so I thought I would bring this here to get opinions! Thanks ahead of time.

Ryan

[Wik]

Couple more pics.

[Mainemilitaria]

I think it's a much earlier bar that's been assembled....the medals (& ribbons) appear to be original, but the bar itself looks to be 1870s/WW 1. I Have a couple bars from that period that have the flat pin like this...

And yes, someone could certianly have a Defense Wall medal and a Winter in Russia on the same bar.....though (like all Wartime medal bars) it would be fairly uncommon to have medalbars assembled in the middle of the war. That might explain the "homemade" quality....

I'd only buy this one priced on the value of the medals themselves....no premium for being mounted....IMO.
John G.

[Tom Yanacek]

I agree, for the most part, with John's opinion about this medal bar. The combination of an EK2, KVK2X, Russian Front, and Westwall is very possible indeed so no real problem as far as that goes. A guy that started out stationed on the Siegfried Line (possibly in the RAD at that time) and then eventually sent out to the Eastern Front. Assuming that the bar is a legitimate wartime assembly, it would have been assembled in the summer of 1942 or later. Parade medal bars were still being made in the middle of the war, although nowhere near the number made during the pre-war and early-war years. Considering the large number of Russian Front Medals awarded, they are not found too often on a medal bar. And for the most part, senior officers and non-commissioned officers dispensed with upgrading their medal bars during the war. Still, the young officers and enlisted men might have a medal bar made up if, for instance, they were going home on leave and were getting married or had some other formal function to attend.

A "trapezoid clasp" style medal bar, such as this, was still being used during the Third Reich Period, although it was used much more often in Imperial times. I agree with John when he says that this mounting plate looks like the type that was used during the Franco-Prussian War. That the mounting plate appears to be made of brass (blue circle in picture below) also bears this out. It would be very, very unusual to find a brass mounting plate on a legitimate medal bar assembled in the middle of WWII. Wartime (WWII) plates were steel or zinc. Also, the fact that the medal hooks are all mounted at different heights indicates that this plate was a custom-made thing to suspend a specific combination of awards, rather than a mass-produced mounting plate made with time and cost-saving measures in mind.

Although very clean looking, the ribbons for the EK2 and KVK2X could very well be WWII period ribbons. However, I would check all of the ribbons for any glowing under ultraviolet light. I am bit concerned about the Russian Front ribbon, and especially, the ribbon for the Westwall. The edges look very much like the weave we see on some modern replacement ribbons. It looks, too, like that Westwall ribbon was intentionally soiled. The medals themselves all look genuine beyond a doubt.

In my opinion, I believe that this bar is a postwar assembly, using all original medals, some real and some replacement ribbons, and an old mounting plate not of the Third Reich Period. I would never buy this particular medal bar as I have to trust my gut feeling on this more than anything else. However, I fully admit that my opinion on this could be wrong and that most of the unusual features of this bar can be rationalized one way or another. Sometimes, medal bars can be very tricky, especially when trying to decide based solely on pictures.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Customized placement of suspension hooks:

[Tom Yanacek]

Comparison of original and fake Westwall ribbons. The color of the ribbon is not necessarily an indicator of fake or real, as original Westwall ribbons can range from brown to golden-yellow. Look closely at the edges of the ribbons and compare the looser, looped edges of the real ribbon with the tight, almost loop lacking edges of the modern ribbon.

[Tom Yanacek]

Here is a photo of a Heer Feldwebel and his Best Man, just before his wartime wedding. He wears a trapezoid clasp with the 1939 EK2 and Winter Battle in the East Medal. (Same style of medal bar as that which started this thread.)

[Wik]

Hey guys, thanks a ton for all this info. I very much appreciate it!

I guess the general opinion then, is that while this bar I posted COULD be genuine there are enough red flags to suggest that I should keep my distance from it.

Sad as I thought this bar was lovely, as far as the medals it had anyhow, but I am glad I didn't just jump right in and buy it and regret it later! As always I am happy to have you guys assist me, especially with bars. They are so interesting but so tricky!


Ryan