Honor Goblet history

[John Enockson]

Here is a link to an Honor Goblet I'll be selling shortly. It is marked FEINSILBER ALPAKA JOH. WAGNER & SOHN and engraved LEUTNANT HELMUT SINN AM 16 7 42. Is there a history for this pilot and when this award was given? Everything about this piece looks good to me but I would like to confirm that it is genuine before it is sold. If anyone has some information to share I'd be thankful and will respond to any questions you may have.




http://www.excel.net/~softnt2/actual.jpg

[Erich B.]

Goblets

It looks okay from the picture, but it's hard to tell how much of the plated finish remains. You might want to add some photos showing the inside and of the markings on the bottom.
I don't have a copy, but there is a book listing most of the winners of the Honor Goblet with the date of award and unit they were with at the time of the award. Perhaps another member with a copy can look up this fellow.
Erich

[Albert]

Hi,

Yes, sure looks like an original. However, it seems a good portion of the silver plating is gone and the yellowish base metal shows through.

Best regards,
Al

[John Enockson]

Plated?

Plated not patina? I thought Feinsilber was a lesser grade of silver alloy not a plated piece. If plated wouldn't it take a great deal of rubbing to remove it or was later war plating of a lower quality to allow it to wear so badly?

[Erich B.]

Alpaka is a silver 'onlay' over base metal--somewhat thicker than an electroplate but still easy to polish off, especially with an abrasive polish.
It wasn't meant to be polished.
Erich

[François SAEZ]

For more info on Ehrenpokal you could have a look at http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/hono...blet/first.htm

HELMUT SINN was observer in 2.(F)/AG 22 - he received the DKiG on 25.09.42

[Albert]

Hello Erich,

Actualy, Alpaka, or Neusilber, or German Silver, is the base metal and was used as a cheaper alternative to silver.
The "onlay" (=Auflage) is Feinsilber.

Too bad it's not Stuka

Best regards,
Al

[Erich B.]

Alpaka

You're right, Al! I just found this on the web:

What is Alpacca ?
Alpacca is a tradename for nickel silver and for electro plated nickel silver. Originally a trademark of Berndorf AG., it is now used as a generic name for nickel silver, espcially in Germany and Scandinavian countries. Often mistakenly written Alpaca. Also called New Silver.

You're also right that it's too bad it's not for a Stukaflieger!

Erich

[Albert]

Just a side note: In a world of "r"s and "tm"s misspellings are not always misspellings

But sometimes it is less obvious: galfan and galvalume. Well, those are post war and I hope we'll never see any badges made of that

[John Enockson]

History!

For more info on Ehrenpokal you could have a look at http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/hono...blet/first.htm

HELMUT SINN was observer in 2.(F)/AG 22 - he received the DKiG on 25.09.42

So what is the meaning of this conflict in dates? Did he get the award on one date for an act on another date? Maybe win the recognition but have the presentation until a later date? Or do I have an upgraded goblet?

[George Stimson]

No, the two different dates are for two different awards -- one for the Honor Goblet and one for the DKiG (German Cross in Gold).

[Jeff Diederichs]

Hmmm... Where did this one come from?

No, the two different dates are for two different awards -- one for the Honor Goblet and one for the DKiG (German Cross in Gold).

I am curious where this goblet surfaced, about a year (?) ago it (or one with the same aircrew member's name, Helmut S I N N,) came up in a junk pile to be thrown out at a second hand store, as it was determined to be JUNK by the low-wage sorters of donations! It was brought to my attention to ask what it was by a mutual friend of the finder. This person saved it from the hopper, not knowing what it was, (given the obvious markings-etc., he knew it was something worth saving, but that's it). I told them what it was, and it's approximate value, and asked if it ever was to be sold, to PLEASE contact me first! He insisted it would never be sold, it's an "heirloom" now. He got it for nothing, and I don't regret being honest about telling him what it was, but I would have appreciated at least a poke at the sale.

For me, it is was once in a lifetime find- if this is the same one. If NOT, there are 2 with the same aircrew member inscription floating around. There is (was?) a dent on the very lowest edge below the personalization engraving.

If it is, next time I'm not going to be so eager to tell someone what they have! Just offer to buy. Lesson learned. (no more mr. nice guy)

Jeff