Opinions on Ribbion Bar

[MaxxBrunn1938]

hey folks recieved this a few days ago and I want a second opinion on it. I'm pretty sure its a made up bar. It's mounted on cardboard and sewin up. The thing I noticed right off the bat is the WW1 EK is after the Cross of Honour.
Looks like something from Hollywood or an re enactment.

Thanks

Joe

[JustinG]

Am I missing a photo link in this thread?

Regards,
JustinG

[MaxxBrunn1938]

Opps forgot to post photos sorry.

[MaxxBrunn1938]

backside

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Joe,

Yes! A made up ribbon bar for sure. German ribbon bars of the Imperial and Third Reich Periods were not worn in two rows but for a few notable exceptions, such as Karl Dönitz, Josef Dietrich, et al. (These guys had massively long ribbon bars with numerous foreign decorations and had no choice but to wear theirs in two rows.) You would never see it on a ribbon bar having only nine awards.

As you mentioned, the Hindenburg Cross worn before the 1914 EK2 is a big red flag. Also, the Long Service ribbon placed between the Czech Annexation and Westwall ribbons is not correct either. It is also unusual to see the Czech and Westwall ribbons on the same bar since members of the Armed Forces that received the Czech Annexation were not supposedly eligible to receive the Westwall. (Although exceptions to this did slip through.) The presence of the Baltic Cross would also raise some suspicion since it is not often seen on a ribbon bar. All of the ribbons, except for the 1914 EK2, have holes in them like they once sported crossed swords or other miniature devices. (That too is very strange.)

The final flaw is that this bar is crudely made and does not even remotely resemble an original of the period.

Best regards,
Tom

[MaxxBrunn1938]

Thanks Tom, when I saw this up for auction it looked like it was 2 ribbion bars since I've never seen a 2 row one. And once I got it in hand that's when I started to see all the red flags. Well it's going back for a refund.
Thanks again

Joe

[landsknechte]

The way it's constructed, it would only be vaguely plausible if it were a DIY construction from the Weimar era. (A lot of strangeness hails from that period.)

[Hans Kondor]

Hello Tyanacek,

can you please explain me why the members of the Armed Forces usually cannot received the Sudetanland(Austrian) and Westfall medals?

[Hans Kondor]

Here's a picture for example where I think he worn the Czech and Westwall too.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Tyanacek,

can you please explain me why the members of the Armed Forces usually cannot received the Sudetanland(Austrian) and Westfall medals?

Hello Anubisz,

There was a regulation in place for awarding of the Westwall Medal to members of the Wehrmacht (Heer, Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe). The regulation stated that any member of the Wehrmacht that had already been awarded the Czech Annexation and/or Memel Medal, were not eligible to receive the Westwall Medal. I believe the regulation was there to put a limit on the number of awards a member of the military could receive for mere presence at an event in peacetime. Back then, awards just weren't handed out to the degree that they are today. However, the regulation did not disqualify an awardee of the Austrian Annexation from receiving the Westwall Medal. (Just the Czech and/or Memel awardees.) Original ribbon and medal bars will bear this out: A Westwall can be found fairly often with an Austrian Annexation but very seldom with a Czech Annexation and never in combination with a Czech Annexation and Memel.

Notice also, that I did state in my first post that exceptions to this regulation did slip through. At the most recent SOS, I did see a nice document and medal bar grouping to a Heer enlisted man. The medal bar displayed a 1939 EK2, Czech Annexation, and Westwall. The soldiers award documents and Wehrpass confirmed these awards. So yes, exceptions did occur like with most everything else.

That is a really nice photo that you posted, by the way. However, the officer shown is a member of the Waffen SS and I believe the regulations were different for the SS. We know, for instance, that Heinrich Himmler had the Austrian Annexation, Czech Annexation with Prague Castle Bar, Memel Medal, and the Westwall on his ribbon/medal bar.

Best regards,
Tom

[Hans Kondor]

Hello,

thank you very much for the infos.It is very interesting.

[paddywhack]

just to add you do see ribbons put in order as to how the solder wanted to have them but you would NEVER see a hindenburg before a ek!

[cobra-2001]

Ribbons

it looks like someone throw them togather . without regards to the proper order .

[Hans Kondor]

After searching for an hour I think I find one Heer with both ribbon bars.

[MaxxBrunn1938]

Mmmmm ok after looking at this last Heer photo and and few others I can see that that ribbions are not mounted to a standard bar mount but look to be loose. Would they have been sewn to a piece of cardboard or material and then sewn onto the Tunic?
As for the Hinderburg before the EK being a Red Flag , each ribbion has a hole in it as if for a sword or eagle device. Now I know the Hindenburg and War Merit would have swords and the Memel Medal having the Prauge Bar, as well as the Service Medal having an Eagle.... But why would the others have a pin hole in them?
I am aware of Regulation make up of the awards and how some put them in differant order BUT I've always been told the EK is Always First!!

So in reading these opinions do I keep it and fix or send it back? Ribbion collecting is not my strong area but I like the looks of some of them on a Tunic.

Thanks again guys.

Joe