Spanish Blue Division medal

[Richard]

Having little to no experience with this medal, I thought I would solicit the help of the forum members regarding information about the pictured award. I am not looking for its award criteria but rather manufacturing, weight and physical characteristics, in order to authenticate the medal. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks very much.
Richard

[cadetarotc]

Richard,

I don't know everything like some of the members here, but i do recall that Spain did not ban the swastika after the war. So medals with the swastika were still produced. And somewhere I remember reading that in the eagles feet is the way to tell the war time production from the post war production. I believe that if the feet are filled in its post war, and if unfilled its war time.

But I can't remember where this information came from. So don't take my word for it, because I can't really back it up. Hopefully other members can help out more.

Regards
Jason

[rhudspith]

With regard to this award there must have been several "grades" of this available. The army musuem in Madrid has a small but excellent display for the Blue Division which includes several types of this award differing in size and quality.

Perhaps they may be able to help. However I have written to them once before but without success. Perhaps some members who live close might be able help.

Rob

[Angel Farré]

As commented, the Spanish Government allows the veterans from the Spanish Blue Division and Blue Squadrons to wear their medals and badges as created during WW II, with the svastica. But it's not allowed to shown in public for nazism exaltation simbols of nazi origin. There are a catolic group formed with former Blue Division vets which shown in his religious images the Ostmedaille and the Infantry Assault Badge as an offer to God. Regarding the medal it was made in only one class for all ranks, but a prototipe in silver and multiparted was made, commonly is refered as officers version, but never confirmed. The medal is made nowdays as a collector replacement from original dies so is very difficult to tell what is wartime and what is modern made, nor the carton box is a simbol of originality as a small amount has been discovered and, perhaps, someone, unexcropulously, is mixing modrn medals and old boxers. I have two from veterans and are a little different in the head and in the spaces between the feathers in the eagle wings, I try to obtain somemore info, take in mind that since two years ago no one in Spain bought this medal without suspicious as in 1.999 was when the rumour of a new modern bunch was heared.

[VerKuilen Ager]

The example I had in my collection years ago (from a documented recipient's group) had quite a bit longer ribbon. I think a look at wartime photos will verify that the style of most Spanish medals was with longer ribbons. That doesn't prove this is a postwar one, but it adds to the questions.

[Richard]

Thanks all for the help. I keep looking at this medal and feel unsure. Despite the box and tissue (which I did not scan), the medal does not look the same as the one picture I can find in For "Fuehrer and Fatherland." Main differences are: 1. the gaps in the wings appear to be drilled and then cut 2. there are cutouts on either side of the eagles leg above the claws that don't exist in Angolia's book either (this must be what Jason is referring to, they are hard to see in the upper scan but somewhat more apparent in the lower on either side of Rusia), and 3. the buildings on the reverse of mine appear in sharper detail and appear to be somewhat taller. Regarding the ribbon, it looks to have been crudely cut at sometime in the past and then sewn back together. Angel, thanks very much for all the details. Would you be able to post a scan of one of yours so I can see what a real one looks like?
Richard

[Jos L C]

Hello Richard,
I happen to have the same badge,bought it from Detlev.
There's a article about the badge on this website,you can find it in"Axis Allies Foreign Legions".
It also shows the "war version" of the medal,for I think our badges are made after war.
They are not fake though.
---------------------------------------------
Here's a text from the "Axis Allies"page:
The medal was presented to all Spanish Volunteers who fought against bolshevism in Russia. Because the swastika was not outlawed in Spain following the
war, veterans continued to wear their awards as originally designed. This meant that there was a market for replacements, so this medal was in production after
the end of the war. They may be discerned from one another by the fact that as the initial production run had a space between the talons of eagle, while the
later produced ones did not. These later awards, however, are not considered reproductions as the Spanish Government officially sanctioned them.
---------------------------------------------
So don't throw away your medal !!!!

Regards,
Jos.

[Angel Farré]

Apart from Spanish Conmemorative medal in Spain were produced several more medals as replacement for veterans, there are in the market Iron Crosses one piece constructed, KVK, Ostmedaille two pieces constructed and the German Conmemorative medal. I'm very sorry about your piece, is a first time copy made with homemade dies, so the maker must drill the holes between the feathers. Regarding the ribbons, is normal to find several leghts, in Spanish fashion you can won several times the same medal and subsequents awards were shown as metal bars in the ribbon so leght could vary.

Regards

Angel

[Jos L C]

Hi,
curiosity is killing me now about these medals.
I was glad to have one in mint condition,whether it is a wartime piece or a official replacement.
I don't hope it turns out that the medals are made to fool the collector.
I hope Detlev is reading this thread,so I want him to ask to give a swift reaction of what he is thinking about the medals.

Regards,
Jos.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

I was going to comment about the page in the Axis Allies section, but Jos already did. so I'll just mention that the Iron Cross section of the main page shows a Spanish made EK 2 if you care to look and comment.

Seba

[Jos L C]

Aren't there anymore collectors who want to know more about these medals.
I can imagine there are a lot more people who bought any of the Spanish medals today on the market.
What about the Legion Condor campaign medals?
They are also on the market in the same mint condition.
Free my mind about these!

Greetings,
Jos.

[Angel Farré]

According to the medals awarded to the Legion Condor is difficult to be fooled with a copy, they received, all, the Medalla de la Campaña, it was so widely made during the first years that there are no market to a modern copy. Regarding the rest of medals they are enamelled or made in real silver, Medalla Militar Individual, and again there are so many originals that prices of modern manufactures make this bussiness ruinous to the faker. You must take care to avoid being fooled not with copies, but with post war mades following the same tecniques and using the same materials, they are almost imposible to difference, but the mass production ended in the early fifties. Also for the highest awards it was common to purchase jeweler copies that not always are the same as the originals. The prices of this medals and the small market to them make not atractive the faking. The common medals are still available from local shops, recently the market was flooded with this type of decorations when the offices from the Spanish Defence Ministry was moved and several thousands were found sleeping in boxes.