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**Flemming** · 06-30-2009, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Brian S View Post

I've seen many "comments" comparing mine to an example of a lead sinker cast crudely. Yeah...
So I am more than a little confused as to how the construction process could be "cast".

That was not a fair comment I think.
You ask for something, regarding construction method, and I just told what I thought of when I saw your badge.

And I still think the edges of your badge reminds me of something that is cast.
But it seems that you know how it was made yourself, and just want what confirms to your own theory, so I will just stay of of this thread.

/Flemming

**keifer kahn** · 06-30-2009, 04:55 PM

Juoneens example is definately stamped as evidenced by the details visible in the photos.

Brians looks cast especialy on the edges.(No evident sheer marks and looks somewhat crude),Stamped pieces should look relatively crisp.

**juoneen** · 06-30-2009, 07:22 PM

Sometimes photos dont give justice to all pieces. I believe there may be ways to sandwich a front and back part to a mold. even as cast, and excess skooshes out, and can still appear stamped, and thin on the edge possibly.
The thing that i believe has been referred to as making sinkers where lead appeared similar...is typical of impurities in the metal cast not skimmed off at the top , and is common to casting ..no matter what the composition.I do see some pitting on the bones that appears like green sand leaves from 2 stage molds. (Would you venture to give us your own opinion on what the metal content seems like as the owner?)
The dirty base metal still gets that seperated layered look, as most stamped items are stamped with dies, and from annealed sheet material. The waf has a section on badges and how they are constructed...if you havent seen it yet...maybe read this page, and then get back to the thread, and tell us what you think it compares to of what they cover in the section for construction techniques..heres the link.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/rese...nstruction.htm

My opinion on the badge is i think it needs to be seen closer... and I think it doesnt have much in common in construction that compares it with original versions popularly accepted known versions of the CLTB.
But other badges have had that type hinge double boss set up, so i cant really condemn it totally, as i wasnt ther in ww2, and am no expert, i just have 2 versions, and you are the one that has to be happy.
Also if you ever decide to sell it, then it should be guaranteed totally , and as long as buyer and seller agree for the long run, thats all that really matters, and im only worried about the items i personally own.
I am the one that has to be happy, and i also do not always agree. Many times its because of the source or provenance that makes me balk at times negative comments are made, or misunderstood by me., ...so the next logical question for or from me is: Does this badge have any provenance?
I do hope you find the answer , and let us know if your opinion ever changes, or what you discover as you research the construction of this badge.
We are all still free to believe what we want, and even as it is in religions, all parishners , even in the same sect...dont always believe the same. So dont give up till you think you have the answer.

Can you also poast the front ad back of the badge in 600x480 or some lower dpi so we can see the overall details pin catch etc. We really dont know what this badge looks like totally. thanks.

**Brian S** · 06-30-2009, 08:19 PM

From the link above;

- Die casting involves the injection of pressurized molten metal into a closed die. Once the contents of the die have cooled, the product is ejected from the die and hand finished into it’s final form. Again, die casting results in fine, consistent detail and a smooth flat reverse. To me, die cast pieces have a slightly smoother, more mass produced look to them. Often die cast pieces have the hinge and catch molded in as an integral part of the badge. Ejector marks, which take the form circular marks on the reverse of the badge, are also commonly found on die cast pieces and are caused by the ejector pins which pop the cooled badge out of the die. As a point of reference, many modern toy cars and trucks (“Hotwheels” etc) are die cast and exhibit the same ejector marks as original German badges. A good example of a die cast badge with an integral hinge and catch is the one piece Luftwaffe Ground Combat war badge. The General Assault war badge is also commonly found in die cast form. Because it was more compatible with cheap raw materials and minimal hand finishing requirements, it is my opinion that die casting was used primarily as a cost saving measure.

- Although not a technique used in the construction of original badges, a description of hand casting may prove useful to the collector owing to the fact that most reproduction badges are made by this method. Hand casting involves the use of a pattern (often an original badge) which is impressed into a waxy substance in order to make a mold. Once the mold has been created, molten metal is hand poured into the image and allowed to cool. The badge is then removed from the mold and finished. Hand casting normally results in a final product that is slightly smaller than the original and that has muddy, inconsistent detail. Also, the reverse of a hand cast badge will often appear wavy and uneven. Since the molten metal is poured by hand and not injected under pressure, small air bubbles are often visible on hand cast pieces. Finally, hand casting does not replicate the crisp edges and sheer marks found on original badges, the edges of a hand cast piece being smooth and rounded. A newer, more sophisticated reproduction technique is now available which uses fine grain dental resin to form a closed mold. These pieces have very good detail and flat, smooth reverses, but once again lack die sheer marks.

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