Medal Bar in action

[erichcraciun]

Here is an intersting foto that I just received.

Nice medal bar on the officer, full size Spange on the medal bar. The "naseverwundeten" Unteroffizier in the bad is wearing the Nahkampfspange.

Erich Craciun

[Rick Research]

Erich-- can you zoom in on his medal bar? What's he wearing between his Hindenburg Cross and Wehrmacht 12 Years Service Medal? Is that an old Bavarian XV Years Cross?


AND the Major is wearing his adjutant's cord through his shoulder board button end NOT with a proper shoulder SEAM button!!!

Such irregularities!!!!

[erichcraciun]

Rick,

here is the enlargement....

[Rick Research]

Thanks!

Hmm. still tough but I'd say from the blur of the cross in question's "indented" bottom arm and the blur of the very light ribbon, he is INDEED quite improperly wearing his Bavarian "old Wehrmacht" XV Years service cross WITH the "replacement" "called up for WW2 military duty" New Wehrmacht equivalents!

[Mark S.]

Is that an Ost front medal in third place? I dont see the stripes on the ribbon, but it sure looks like it has a helmet perched on the medal.

[Rick Research]

Yup. The original 1942 precedence put it ahead of non-Iron Cross WW1 bravery awards, which the veterans did NOT (rightfully) like. Most of the time you will find it tucked back against the Hindenburg Cross after 1942, and "regulations" be damned!

The Germans had a very strange system of putting the most RECENT campaign award FIRST, dating back into Imperial times. There were some very freaky and unlogical (1864, 1919) exceptions, but that's why the "1 month" East Medal was put ahead of the "51 months" Hindenburg Cross. Other countries normally wear campaign medals in the order earned.

[Dave Danner]

The Bavarian MVK appears to be a 1st or 2nd Class (probably 2nd). Since rank determined class of award, this would fit with a Bavarian long service cross, as he would have been an NCO in WW1. But why no Bavarian Army Jubilee?

[Rick Research]

I don't know if these Zinky Boys can "handle the Imperial" to paraphrase Jack Nicholson.

Double wartime service for REGULARS, 1914-18 = "10." + 1919-20 = "12." So go back 1913, 1912, 1911 and that = "15."

For the 1911 (1911 and 1912) Luitpold Army Jubilee Medal, the holder had to be an officer, officer candidate, Bavarian citizen officer who had NOT received the 1905 version (in Schutztruppen at the time, or in the Imperial navy) or... a career NCO or a RE-enlisted "Kapitulant." Anyone still on their first draftee or initial 2-3 year enlistment term, as most later career NCOs were vetted during this time, was NOT entitled to the "1911." (On the other hand, an 18 year old graduate of an NCO Preparatory Academy would have been entitled, since they started their military service signed up for 12 years up front.)

So, either drafted or enlisted 1910/11 to 1912/13 could NOT get it. The MVK2X was awarded to ranks requiring 6 "real" years to get there (except for officer candidates), so the bar fits someone who served between 1910 and 1920 as a regular army NCO.

He was still SUPPOSED to replace his Imperial military long service with the "1936" type on rejoining the colors 1939+ for war's duration. VERY naughty!

[McCulloh]

Interesting as its a bar that was mounted in late 1942-1943 too.

[erichcraciun]

So Rick, tell me...do you like the foto???? Just joking. Thanks for the information. I will be posting more odd fotos later!

Erich

I don't know if these Zinky Boys can "handle the Imperial" to paraphrase Jack Nicholson.

Double wartime service for REGULARS, 1914-18 = "10." + 1919-20 = "12." So go back 1913, 1912, 1911 and that = "15."

For the 1911 (1911 and 1912) Luitpold Army Jubilee Medal, the holder had to be an officer, officer candidate, Bavarian citizen officer who had NOT received the 1905 version (in Schutztruppen at the time, or in the Imperial navy) or... a career NCO or a RE-enlisted "Kapitulant." Anyone still on their first draftee or initial 2-3 year enlistment term, as most later career NCOs were vetted during this time, was NOT entitled to the "1911." (On the other hand, an 18 year old graduate of an NCO Preparatory Academy would have been entitled, since they started their military service signed up for 12 years up front.)

So, either drafted or enlisted 1910/11 to 1912/13 could NOT get it. The MVK2X was awarded to ranks requiring 6 "real" years to get there (except for officer candidates), so the bar fits someone who served between 1910 and 1920 as a regular army NCO.

He was still SUPPOSED to replace his Imperial military long service with the "1936" type on rejoining the colors 1939+ for war's duration. VERY naughty!

[James Clark]

Yup. The original 1942 precedence put it ahead of non-Iron Cross WW1 bravery awards, which the veterans did NOT (rightfully) like. Most of the time you will find it tucked back against the Hindenburg Cross after 1942, and "regulations" be damned!

The Germans had a very strange system of putting the most RECENT campaign award FIRST, dating back into Imperial times. There were some very freaky and unlogical (1864, 1919) exceptions, but that's why the "1 month" East Medal was put ahead of the "51 months" Hindenburg Cross. Other countries normally wear campaign medals in the order earned.

But the Flower Campaign medals go 13 March 1938 - 1 October 1938 - Memel medal (22 March 1939) don't they? I suppose the Ostmedaille went in front of these because it was a "proper" campaign. Although there is a picture of Hans Ulrich Rudel weaing a two-place ribbon bar of 1 October medal followed by the Ostmedaille (I don't have a copy - it's on the cover of one of his books). And the German/Italian North African Campaign medal at the end as it was foreign (or at least half-foreign)?

[Rick Research]

Yup, the "flower campaigns" were stuck at the end because they were NOT fighting campaigns. So German bars have their bizarre campaigns-forward and then those in normal-order-created-back, side by side on the same bars.

1938-ish bars do show up with the "flowers" improperly ahead of long services, and so on...

so it becomes as important knowing about contemporary MISTAKES and when those happened as much as the actual correct regulations! (This may be one reason why the Cult Of Medal-/Ribbon- Bars is so small )