Clasp "Prager Burg" just on bar ribbon constructions?

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear all,

Yesterday I acquired a "Prager Burg" clasp for my Sudetenland annexion medal. I´ll be damned, in ALL of my books and catalogues I cannot find a picture of the medal with clasp that is NOT on a single bar. Mine is just with ribbon and brooch device and I wonder exactly where I will have to attach the pronged clasp through the ribbon. Does anyone have a photo of a medal with Prager Burg Spange that features my type of construction? I want to attach this accurately and not just somewhere on the ribbon.

Thanks & Cheers, Frank

[Mike H]

Frank,

Here are a couple of photos I hope are helpful of the medal itself with the Prag bar attached -- both obverse and reverse.

Mike Heuer




[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Mike Heuer ]

[George Stimson]

Why not just place the bar on the ribbon in the spot shown in Mike's pictures (without actually piercing it) for display, or leaving the bar separate? I mean, I've switched a few loose ribbons around, but I would never do anything so radical as bending a tab on a bar or clasp and pushing it through an old ribbon! What's wrong with a separate bar? You can always get another Sudetenland medal later with the bar already attached.

George

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: George Stimson ]

[Frank Heukemes]

Mike: Thanks, exactly what I needed to see. Strange to see that the bar also pierces the second half of ribbon and actually comes through with it´s prongs on the reverse. Is this contemporary or did you also attach the bar lateron?

George: Maybe I seem to be radical in this case, but I do not see anything wrong with placing two original pieces together in exactly the way it should be.

Cheers, Frank

[Rick Research]

Frank-- I agree completely with George. You do not "need" to stick holes in something that does not have holes already.

If you had a medal bar with the Prague bar missing, then that would be a restoration to find and replace a missing piece. Just sticking one in a normal ribbon is wasteful.

What if you get a medal bar that is missing a Prague, or even an original unmounted medal with one missing? You have then damaged an original ribbon for nothing and have a set of original holes still needing a bar put in them.

These old prongs and pins were meant THEN to be put in once. Bending and rebending them 60 years later you are almost guaranteed to break a prong off--causing MORE problems.

The Great Motto of all collecting should always be:

"Leave Well Enough Alone!"

I have had enough "learning experiences" to have found that out the hard way for myself! Rick

[Frank Heukemes]

Rick and George,

I fully respect your opinions and share them in almost all other cases. I would not change a uniform, sew things on there that weren´t there before, etc.
In this case, I think it is fine to have the bar united with the ribbon, even if this particular ribbon didn´t have the bar before. And NO, there are no two ugly holes left in my ribbon, because in those holes is the historical correct bar in the historical correct place and it will remain so in my collection. I just want to own one example of this medal with the bar, as these medals do not have enough variation from maker to maker to collect several of them.
I also would not bend an already bent bar. This bar I have acquired is unused, in mint shape and the prongs are very "healthy". The medal is also in mint shape, a perfect match. I do this for my collection and not with the intention to raise value for selling. Probably, each on its own could raise more money.
If this medal would have come to me from a vet, I would have never done this. But medal and bar were inissued originals, they have no story connected to them. Maybe that relieves you. Believe me, I think very much alike and just feel ok to do this in THIS SPECIAL case.
And before I go to trial here: No, I did not rip the 25-year servive award from the bar and I did not attach the 40 years bar lateron on my 25years service award shown in another post today. It came to me that way from the dealer.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

....and I sincerely hope that you will not call me the "Butcher Of Prague" from now on!

Cheers, Frank

[George Stimson]

Okay Frank, do whatever you like, but I still think that if items "should be" together they "would be" together.
("Butcher of Prague"? That's a good one! )

George

[Mike H]

Dear Frank,

To answer your questions ...

No, I did not add the Prag bar to the medal. It came that way and appears to be original. It is so well lined up and nicely done. I do not find it unusual that the bar prongs pierce the back of the ribbon, keeping in mind other insignia you see the same way. Actually, it would be a bit clumsy and ugly if it didn't as this would create a gap between the front and rear ribbons.

While I agree with Rick and George on "adding" things to any militaria and would not do it myself, your explanation of why you are doing it is a good one. But I must admit, I would not do it myself. I would find one with a Prag bar already and leave this one alone and untouched.

Best regards,

Mike Heuer

[Rick Research]

I'm a "spare parts" packrat, so my first reaction is always to "save it until I may need it." This usually means I never actually match things up, but many a time I have.

I have a nice long ribbon bar now with the prongs broken off one of the crossed swords and it is held on with thread. A bizarre hilt style I have never seen before (as are the extra-fat "chicken" Wehrmacht eagles, only seen these about 6 times--obviously unique to one maker). Really really need matching swords--and none of the "spares' from old tailors' supplies I have matches.

As far as variations on the Prague bars:

maybe not on the full size, but are there ever on the ribbon bar ones! Anybody ever seen a SQUARE Prague bar? Got one for The Ribbon Bar Article-- yuuuuuuccckkk!!!

[George Stimson]

Butcher of Prague?

Frank,

Did you do it?

George

[Dez H]

Don't hurt the ribbon!!!!
moremad

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear George,

Yes, I dared to do it. Looks like Mike Heuer´s shown example now. Sorry if I inflicted some pain to some people while doing so. You know my point of view in THIS special case, I described it in length above. It remains in my collection as I do never sell my dear items, so nobody was hurt, right?

As a sidenote:
After your comments it didn´t go really easy though, since the ribbon, now conscious of it´s real value, screamed terribly during the operation. Made me feel like a hun and a vandal at the same time.

Cheers, Frank