My Newest Medal Bar

[luftkrieg]

Hi. Just thought i'd share my latest purchase.

1914 EK
Bavarian MVO 4kl mit sword und krone
Honor Cross X
Luftwaffe 18Yr
Luftwaffe 4Yr
Luftshutz 2Kl

[luftkrieg]

Reverse.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Pierce,

Congratulations to you for acquiring this fabulous medal bar.

Best regards,
Tom

[McCulloh]

Really, really interesting bar. I would LOVE to examine that one closely. The MVOx with crown is worth looking at in particular. That level of award without a Jubilee merits a closer look.

Are the ribbons stiff? Have you blacklighted it? Does it smell old?

It looks good, probably to a retread Bavarian Hauptman who was recalled and I'll bet was at the very least a Lt. Colonel in 1940. I reckon this bar dates to about 1938-39, as I can not imagine this level of officer doing anything that would not have merited him at least a KVKx by 1941.

The Luftschutz medal at the end is often a warning bell, but here "makes sense", especially to someone who may well have been a technical services commander and running training courses.

[luftkrieg]

Really, really interesting bar. I would LOVE to examine that one closely. The MVOx with crown is worth looking at in particular. That level of award without a Jubilee merits a closer look.

Are the ribbons stiff? Have you blacklighted it? Does it smell old?

It looks good, probably to a retread Bavarian Hauptman who was recalled and I'll bet was at the very least a Lt. Colonel in 1940. I reckon this bar dates to about 1938-39, as I can not imagine this level of officer doing anything that would not have merited him at least a KVKx by 1941.

The Luftschutz medal at the end is often a warning bell, but here "makes sense", especially to someone who may well have been a technical services commander and running training courses.

Hi McColloh,

Thanks for posting.

I did question the bar without a Jubilee medal also, i asked a few different collectors some here on the forum but got the answer i was hoping for--not necessarily!

The ribbons are old and smell old and fusty...like my other Imperial bars. i do not have any blacklighting equipment.

Why would the Luftshutz ususally be a warning bell? does it make sense on a Luftwaffe bar?

i have an original bar with the following combo: Heer/KM 12+4 Year, Luftshutz. I take it this would not make sense? i am looking forward to learning more on this.

Thanks
Pierce

[McCulloh]

The MVOx with CROWN indicates a higher rank in 1918 (Btn. Cmmdr. etc.). It could be to another "Land" citizen, but it would be rather unusual, especially without another home state decoration to prop it up. It happened, but is rather unusual.

A Bavarian at this officer grade would certainly have been in uniform in 1912 and received a jubilee medal. The 'old armee' was very time/seniorty conscious. Indeed, this was even to the detriment of actual ability, as "bright but socially unconnected" officers typically went into the artillery, signals, ordinance, train (The train was the absolute bottom of the heap).

The Luftschutz medal is beloved by repro bar makers. It is pretty, unusual, and cheap and there were tens of thousands left unissued or in mint in drawers. I view it as a warning bell-like foreign awards at the end of a bar. Reproduction makers know that a bit of "special bling" brings in the cash.

The Luftschutz medal was supposed to be for service in the civil defense organization, NOT the Luftwaffe.

However, we KNOW that certain Luftwaffe personnel got this award for teaching gas and civil defense courses, running training centers etc. .
However, it is unusual.

It is possible that a person could have earned the Luftschutz medal before recall into the armed forces in 1939/40, but again, it is unusual.

The Luftschutz medal itself: whogot it, when and how is worth study. I've been looking at Wehrpasses for @ 10 years now and even many older WW1 vets who were members of the Luftschutz Assn. and got a KVKx for service in bombing raids did not receive a Luftschutz medal.

I would post a photo or two to illustrate, but apparently have been demoted and so am unable.

[luftkrieg]

The MVOx with CROWN indicates a higher rank in 1918 (Btn. Cmmdr. etc.). It could be to another "Land" citizen, but it would be rather unusual, especially without another home state decoration to prop it up. It happened, but is rather unusual.

A Bavarian at this officer grade would certainly have been in uniform in 1912 and received a jubilee medal. The 'old armee' was very time/seniorty conscious. Indeed, this was even to the detriment of actual ability, as "bright but socially unconnected" officers typically went into the artillery, signals, ordinance, train (The train was the absolute bottom of the heap).

The Luftschutz medal is beloved by repro bar makers. It is pretty, unusual, and cheap and there were tens of thousands left unissued or in mint in drawers. I view it as a warning bell-like foreign awards at the end of a bar. Reproduction makers know that a bit of "special bling" brings in the cash.

The Luftschutz medal was supposed to be for service in the civil defense organization, NOT the Luftwaffe.

However, we KNOW that certain Luftwaffe personnel got this award for teaching gas and civil defense courses, running training centers etc. .
However, it is unusual.

It is possible that a person could have earned the Luftschutz medal before recall into the armed forces in 1939/40, but again, it is unusual.

The Luftschutz medal itself: whogot it, when and how is worth study. I've been looking at Wehrpasses for @ 10 years now and even many older WW1 vets who were members of the Luftschutz Assn. and got a KVKx for service in bombing raids did not receive a Luftschutz medal.

I would post a photo or two to illustrate, but apparently have been demoted and so am unable.

Hi.

You said my bar was a good...so now it's not??

Was the Jubilee Medal not awarded in 1905+1911? I have studied a few profiles and as far as i can remember there were officers with the MVO and no Jubilee medal.

Could this guy have been high enough up to have gotten the Luftshutz? Was it awarded for special merit in the organisation?

Thanks
Pierce

[McCulloh]

Honestly, I don't know. I tend to err on the side of caution, but this one I "feel" to be o.k.. Nothing is blatently wrong with it I can see. But I know there are folks out there recreating bars with original medals.

I am certain the medals are real originals (although I'd like a Bavarian expert to look at the MVOx as I know that there are issues with some medals with the crown).

There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

To me this bar says:
1. Mid-level officer in WW1. NOT a Bavarian regular army officer as no Jubilee and no LS 25 medal. Maybe a prussian as no other state medal and note, no HHOx, so not a hotshot bayonet charge-leading wunderoffcier. Discharged in 1919. Recalled in @ 1938-39..
2. Member of Luftschutz at some point OR received medal by 1941 because of attachment to civil defense institution somewhere: UNUSUAL.

What sort of person wore this bar and had this career and ended up in the technically heavy Luftwaffe expansion? Off the top of my head, a technician, signals, staff, specialized administrator, Doctor or maybe even a FLAK Bttn. Commander.

[luftkrieg]

Honestly, I don't know. I tend to err on the side of caution, but this one I "feel" to be o.k.. Nothing is blatently wrong with it I can see. But I know there are folks out there recreating bars with original medals.

I am certain the medals are real originals (although I'd like a Bavarian expert to look at the MVOx as I know that there are issues with some medals with the crown).

There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

To me this bar says:
1. Mid-level officer in WW1. NOT a Bavarian regular army officer as no Jubilee and no LS 25 medal. Maybe a prussian as no other state medal and note, no HHOx, so not a hotshot bayonet charge-leading wunderoffcier. Discharged in 1919. Recalled in @ 1938-39..
2. Member of Luftschutz at some point OR received medal by 1941 because of attachment to civil defense institution somewhere: UNUSUAL.

What sort of person wore this bar and had this career and ended up in the technically heavy Luftwaffe expansion? Off the top of my head, a technician, signals, staff, specialized administrator, Doctor or maybe even a FLAK Bttn. Commander.

OK....i still really like my bar!
You see i am after getting out of Third Reich due to the heavy number of fakes!! now there are Imperial put together bars too???!!

You seem to know a lot about these bars, i am a mere novice, so your help is greatly appreciated, many thanks.

Kind regards
Pierce