Early tombak Ostmedaille in mint condition

[R. Schmitt]

BTW - since we're speaking of badges teaken apart in whatever way - I got these here, I got them like that, did not do this to the cross myself. If anyone needs these for some EK2 material and manufacturing research, here's the pix, or simply keep in mind that I have 'em - I can always send more/take more....
Cheers
Rainer

[Wallace]

I have a questio what does ''tombak'' mean is that a kind of material??

[Robert P.]

Tombak or tombac is a brassy-looking base-metal composition used in earlier badges and medals. Due to shortages of the base elements that made up the tombak composite metal at the height of the war, zinc was then used to make these medals and badges. Here's some definitions of the materials used to make the composite:

as quoted on another thread:

I've done some research in my engineering books and found that Tombac (with a 'c' not a 'k' -at least in English) is a Copper/Zinc alloy (CuZn20) and as such it has a density of 8.65 gms/cc. Zinc on the other hand has an (unalloyed) density of 7.14 gms/cc. This would make a Tombac CCC circa 21% heavier than a Zinc CCC. Therefore, for a Zinc clasp weighing (say) 35.4g, a Tombac clasp would weigh circa 42.9g (i.e. 7.5g heavier).

...this means a Copper/Zinc alloy containing 80% Copper and 20% Zinc. There are some sites on the internet which claim that Tombac is up to 90% Copper which would increase the density and therefore the weight of the clasp by about another 0.5gms. Whether its 80/20 or 90/10, a Tombac clasp would weigh about 7 gms more than a Zinc one

[emilitaria_usmc]

A sweet steel russian front medal

Here is a really nice unknown steel russian front medal:



Winterschlact Im Osten:</STRONG> magnetic steel with blued finish, 35 mm wide, 20.7 gm.

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi,

If it is magnetic it is of course made of steel, that's a fact. But is it logical to find a genuine Ostmedal made of steel? No way IMO!.

Regards, Theo

[emilitaria_usmc]

Hi,

If it is magnetic it is of course made of steel, that's a fact.
But is it logical to find a genuine Ostmedal made of steel?
No way IMO!.

Regards, Theo

hmmm ... Theo thinks this is a fake!
I think it is 100% original.
And it is beautiful!!
Let's get some more opinions!

[Wim Vangossum]

Yes, I hope their will be more opinions! It isn't nothing personal you have to understand but it sounds so unlogical to me. I was even thinking about it last night Besides that: Nowadays it is realtive easy to apply some kind of artificial blueing to steel. So in theorie it could be easier to apply a convincing finish on a steel based medal copie than one made of zinc.

Regards, Theo

[Stahlhelm]

I have at least never before heard of these medals ever being made of steel. At best, I suppose that just means that I've never heard of it.

Also, Theo does have a very logical point about the practicality of using the steel materials to make fakes.

However, the scary thing is that if it is a fake, then it's a REALLY good fake, for sure.

Chris

[emilitaria_usmc]

Hi Theo and Chris
I am completely ignorant about how one goes about making a steel fake. I got this medal about 15 yrs ago when the market value was what - maybe $20 each?? Would it not be harder to make this thick medal out of steel rather than zinc? That's why I think it is probably original. It looks die struck to me. If it's fake where are all the others like it?

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi,

Maybe it is useful tho start a fresh thread with detailed pictures. It will get some more attention from other members. I always keep an open mind to everything but I cannot believe in this piece for many reasons. They were always made from zinc alloys probably with variation in quality of the alloy and sometimes received a copper layer before the actually finish. Their are also ostmedals made of tombak -probably in the beginning of their production- and even the use of that alloy will be take in doubt by some collectors who assumed that they were made only in zinc. If the medal that you posted is genuine it will be the first discovered one made of steel??? Ok let's trow it for the lions and start a fresh thread.

By the way: If it is genuine it would have a greater value then a dozen common Ostmedals IMO.

Regards, Theo

[Time Bandit]

Just found this thread after following the link in another Ost medal thread.

Anyhow, I have what I think is a steel Ost medal also similar to the one a couple of posts up.

I have had it for approx 12/13 years. It is not maker marked on the ring but did come in a blue packet which has the maker of Frank & Reif Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, the packet is not in the best of condition. The medal didn't have a ribbon when I got it and the ribbon in the pictures is a modern repro which I happened to have and used when I took some of the pics 'cos I thought it looked better!!
The pictures dont really do the medal any justice and it looks far better in hand. The quality is really quite good though it does have a few knocks and dings over it - from 60 years wear and tear....or maybe only 20???
I'd always presumed it was a good medal as the quality seems far to good for a fake bearing in mind you are looking at something that if it is a fake was produced at least 12/13 years ago and back then surely it wouldn't be worth a fakers while to make a fake of this sort of quality when an original could be had then for next to nowt?? Then again who knows what goes on in the mind of a faker....??

Anyhow, some pics...not the best of pics and they really don't show the Ost as it looks in hand.









and here it is alongside my MM65 Zinc Ost medal...





I don't have a pic of the packet that I can see on the hard drive - if I mind on I'll take a photo of that tomorrow.

So there you go the deal deal or a fake???

[Time Bandit]

Right found some pics of the packet also...

Without flash by the looks of it...





and with flash...





What do you reckon to the packet...? Good or bad...?

[Robert P.]

Thank you for posting photos of this Ostmedialle. It's very interesting to see them in steel also. It's becoming more evident that they were indeed made in steel during the war, assuming it is paired with this packet, originally.

Robert

[Time Bandit]

Difficult to say if it originally came with the packet from the factory though I guess? It had no ribbon with it so I don't know if helps or not? If someone was going to put a put a set together you would think that it would of also had a ribbon as it would probably sell better?? Maybe it has that in its favour?
To be honest I have no idea if it's genuine or not - all I can say is that for what is maybe a 20 year old fake of what at the time would be for a medal that in it's genuine form was pretty cheap the quality is pretty damned good and from a fakers point of view I just can't see how it would of been a sound economical plan to make these....would of probably been easier and less hassle to just go and buy some originals and flog them!!

It would be nice if it does turn out to be variation of an original but in steel but I wont hold my breath in the meantime...just in case!!

[all1knew]

Hello there,

It's magnetic?

Have you compared this to other F&R examples?

William Kramer