Identify 2 on medal bar?

[VincentC]

Hi all,

Could someone identify for me the 3rd & 4th medals on the top bar?
I'm told they're to the same individual, only I haven't the knowledge to spot anything that is inconsistent, odd, impossible....you get the idea . Info all round, please
Thank you!

[Rick Research]

Not the same owner since one has a Wehrmacht 4 and Sudeten and the other doesn't.

The Bulgarian Merit Medal with Crown on the War Ribbon in the upper bar appears to be BRONZE class, which would be for junior enlisted ranks, while the Order of the Crown Of Rumania-Knight with Swords after it was given to Lieutenants. Not beyond the realm of possibility for an officer candidate newly commisioned as a Leutnant.

If the awards on the upper bar clip on and off as is apparent from the lower bar where the empty Rumanian ribbon shows the black fastening hook normally concealed under the ribbon, I'd suspect that perhaps the upper bar had another Bulgarian award on there that was replaced by the medal-- but since it "fits" exactly and lines up flat across the bottom, it could well be original to that bar.

Germans usually mounted the sword-in-fist reverse of the Rumanian Crusade Against Communism incorrectly as the obverse, so both of those are regulation. Rumanian made ones, oddly, have the die cutter's name (yes indeed) "P. Grant" under Mommy Rumania. German made ones don't.

[McCulloh]

Hmmm...

I believe the top bar is a remade fake, the bottom one probably is war time. The Rumanian Crusade medal on the top bar sports a "new", post war FRENCH type made type Crusade medal. The bottom one looks as if its a real rumanian issue.
As Rick pointed out, the P. Grant indicates a rumanian issue whereas those made in Germany (both before and after the war) do not have the artist's name. The Souval post war medals are "waxy looking "bronzed" zinc or "buntmetal and slightly thinner than war time made pieces. Also as rick said, period bars almost ALWAYS have the sword side displayed. Having said that though, the picture below, from "1944" (vol.3) shows a Rumanian chap wearing his with the lady's head dsplayed:

[Mark S.]

the top bar isnt a fake, its a 57 version. Oaks on the cross, no swaz on the Ost medal..that would explain the French crusade medal!

[J Temple-West]

Hi Vincent, would you please post a pic' of the back of the bottom bar...

Many thanks...

[McCulloh]

Ahh!

Ahh!
Right you are there, I did not notice the oaks on the EK2. That makes sense then, since the French made version was sold in Europe through the early 1970s.
Thanks!
JeMc
Nice bars too! Are they for sale?

[VincentC]

Thanks guys for your help!
The bars are apart of a group I've been offered -- a variety of awards including a DKiG, combat badges, some equipment, photo album, just a mix but no documents (???). Not appealing as a whole given the latter fact.
Again, appreciate it.
Vince

[Rick Research]

Brought up to compare the equally mint medal bar with Rumanian awards in thread started by J Temple-West:

WHERE ARE ALL THESE MINT WW2 MEDAL BARS WITH RUMANIAN AWARDS SUDDENLY COMING FROM???????????

[Daniel Krause]

... and why the hell should plenty of German WW2 soldiers have a reason to wear one???

Best regards

Daniel

[Chris B]

The Rumanians supported the Germans in the Krim Campaign. Maybe the Rumanians got some Krimschilder and the Germans got some Crusade against Communism medals. Regards Chris B.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Chris,

I didnt mean where the Germans got Rumanian awards; I mean where the hell should German soldiers in the middle of the war have occasions to wear a medal bar. Thats why I hardly believe that so many long and pure 3rd reich medal bars are original.

Best regards

Daniel

[Mark S.]

Officer funerals perhaps? Rommel died in 1944..lots of medal bars at that funeral.

What about City/State functions?

What other special functions would warrant the use of a waffenrock uniform, which is where presumably these would be worn?

Maybe he didnt need a reason..I have seen many pictures of older men (not necessarily German) sitting around in a suit and tie with a medal bar pinned to thier chest. National Geographic is famous for these kinds of pictures, or used to be.

[McCulloh]

weddings,parades and funerals

I have been collecting 3rd Reich snaps of Wehrmacht types wearing medal bars since I got a suspect bar from Jamie Cross four years ago-again with a Rumanian Crusade medal at the end. I too asked myself this question,"when would anybody wear this bar?".
What I've found is that there actually were a fair number of these things made-usually worn at weddings, funerals in Germany and at parades in the rear eschelons or at re-training schools, OCS or even in the respite of late 1944/early 1945 when a lot of soldiers on the Eastern Front got leave. Guys assigned to Staffs also had them as did pilots and signals/support types. Still, compared to WW1 bars, they are much rarer.
Cheers,
JeMc

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Jeff,

If You collect those pics, please show us! I would like to see it.
I know that there are occasions to wear a medal bar in WW2 but thats no reason why just now plenty of that stuff should appear.

Best regards

Daniel

[Rick Research]

What's odd is the "minty" AND multiple Rumanian/ALL WW2 awards.

Rear area types got all dressed up way more than frontline troops, so WW2 bars tend more to be WW1 retreads with KVK2Xs than all combat WW2 awards.

Probably rhe most common reason would be for a wedding.

Here is a photo taken spring/summer 1944 of Generalmajor Christoph Stengel and his wife, taken on their wedding anniversary, presumably.

Note that he is using his normal service dress as semi-dress, with parade belt and saber... and semi-complete medals. He was a shockingly sloppy dresser and quite casual about his awards in a way I have never seen in a German General officer before. He is not wearing his 1918 Silver Wound badge in this one--note his bizarre way of wearing EK1 1914 and Spange, and is wearing his PRE-WAR medal bar, omitting EK2 Spange and 1941/42 East Medal, worn as usual as buttonhole ribbons!

Yjis photo is from Ted's collection