Unidentified Ribbon and Device

[Johnny R]

I had this in Imperial and heard back that it might be for the Order of the Zähringen Lion 2nd class with swords. I wanted to list it here too. Anyone seen this before? I have a lot of books and can't find it in there. It is not for the Rettungsmedaille. The main ribbon is brown gold and the stirpes are gold. I have looked on the back and the ribbon has not faded or been stained etc.

Thanks

[Johnny R]

Close up

Same

[McCulloh]

May well be, but it looks messed with to me-the rank is rather high for only one ribbon, let alone no LS medal, however stripped down 'war time awards only" bars do exist.
See the ribbon bar article in the Association area.

[Johnny R]

Ribbon bar

I took the ribbon off and put it back on, did not realize the ribbon was crooked until after the photo, I have been collecting for 30 years and the bar is original. I am the first person who removed the ribbon sections.

The reason I took it off was to check the back for fading, stains and etc. Same colors. The ribbon is not the colors of the Baden award. I agree the device is similar to the Loin award but still have not heard from anyone who has seen the actual device before just made the comment that they are similar.

Thanks for your help but I am not convinced yet.

The article on ribbons was viewed before I posted asking for help and did not provide information pertaining to this specific question.


J

[Chris Taylor]

Beside the concern over the bar lacking other awards to support such a high honor, (also I don't think the ribbon is correct?), the device w/wound badge on the 1914/18 ribbon is for buttoniers only & dosen't belong on a ribbon bar.
I would suspect someone may have messed with this bar.

[Johnny R]

Wound Badge on the ribbon bar

Thanks for bringing up several important issues in general.

I believe the bar is original and is not messed with aside from me opening the back to look at the ribbon color.

The statement about the device only being used on button ribbons is not correct. I have a 1939 Beco award catalog that shows the wound badge and crossed swords mounted in a ribbon bar. The wound badge swords combo is 6th from left in the top row. I have also seen the device mounted on other known to be original examples.

The lack of other awards does not demonstrate anything other than that this specific bar only has three (actually 4) awards on it. Most the bars I have seen for combat tunics do not carry all the wearers awards, these include RKT Hans Storm's awards and many other German WWII Vets.

In the German language there actually is a specific word for the ribbon bar worn on field tunics "Feldspange" versus the normal bar "Bandspange". Rarely do you see photos of frontline soldiers wearing all the Flower War, RAD Service, West Wall etc. ribbons in the field, usually only the EK, War service, Winter and long service. I don't think the size of the bar indicates anything other than it is most likely only the wearers combat awards.

I am still interested in knowing if anyone knows the ribbon and device. The swords and oak leaves are different the the Zahringer Lowen. A closer match to the device is the Red Eagle Order but ribbons are not pictured in Nimmergut's Deutschland-Katalog 2005/2006 Orden & Ehrenzeichen 1800-1945.

[Chris Taylor]

Here is a link to Rick's ribbon bar article showing this same device but in gold on a Zähringen Lion Order:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/rela...and_Leaves.htm

It's a pity neither of the Rick's are around here anymore, as I'm sure they could give you a quick & acurate answer.

I too have a bar with this device on it, but unfortionatly I believe it was someones attemp to "spice" up the bar, as I it appears the device is on the incorrect ribbon. (see below)

I don't think the ribbon is correct for the Zähringen Lion 2nd class, as I believe it should have green.

Does the wear look consistent & fairly even to all 3 ribbons on the bar?

Also, I stand corrected. I shouldn't say the swords/helmet was only for buttoniers, but I believe this is where you find them about 99% of the time.

[Johnny R]

Bar

The bar is set up with the individual ribbons each being a seperate unit and wear is even on the edges and overall etc.

I suppose it could have been replaced or faked etc. hard to know aside from the error.

I still would ike to know what the ribbon is. It is silk and looks period to me, Strange deal. I will start looking at shows and maybe something will pop up.

[Chris Taylor]

Very interesting that this bar also has one of the less common (almost rare) grey "plastic" backings. These are from an unknown maker, but seem to show up with earlier WW1 vet combos from the early/mid 1930's.

A great thing about these is that if it's been messed with you can usually see scratches in the plastic.

Overall I'd have to say that outside of the mystery ribbon/device, this bar looks pretty good.

The only ribbons I can think of with this color combinations are the Prussian Rettungsmedaille (life saving medal) or the Westwall medal, both of which wouldn't make sense with the device.

Good luck on your search & sorry I couldn't be more help.

Also forgot to mention, great catalog!

[Johnny R]

Catalog

I should post the catalog pages for members. Do you know any of the moderators.