Detlev's DRL Badges

[chris clark]

interesting thread this. so i take it we are saying those with the bit of metal left are all 57,s ?? i just looked at my sets to date and found it interesting that all my w/o swaz cut outs have the little bit left. sorry pic not great but can be seen. i have diff pin assembly on what is a typical 57 pin on some of my cut outs which leans towards pre 57 version

[Darrell]

.....

[Andy B.]

Hi Darrell,
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know about the little tip above the wreath. When I checked the pics in Detlevs book, they all have the tip as well (hense, I thought they were good). I am trying to find the drl w/o swaz. badges myself to complete my collection. And you are right, they are hard to find.
Thanks again for the help,
Andy B.

[speedytop]

Scott C.:
"the Jena-marked badge in Angolia's vol 2 (with tip and narrow flat pin) still looks convincing"

What is shown there, is the Obverse of a post war badge without a factory mark on the back, and the Reverse of an original Wernstein badge!

Please, look at the pins, they are different.


You cannot find a real original Wernstein DRL without the swastika.


All DRL badges without the swastika are post war issues (with or without the pin, the solid backs or the cut outs, with or without a factory mark).


There is no gap between the DRA and the DRL with swastika.


Regards
Uwe

I beg your pardon for my bad English

[Darrell]

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[speedytop]

Hi Darrell,

can you please show me an original picture or an original document to verify your statement?

Regards
Uwe

[Scott C.]

.

[Darrell]

......

[Scott C.]

While my references say it, none show a period photo of a DRL without swastika in wear. Of course a badge with such a short lifespan might be tough to capture in a period photo...

Scott

[Peter J.]

Hi Darrell,

Perhaps we shouldn't be too quick to use irony. From same reference books, we know the "double u with 5 dots" is the Wernstein logo. Are you equally sure this is correct? And how do we explain the document shown in the following thread? If you ask me me, I stunned over the lack of interest amongst our members to discuss this.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=178399

KR
Peter

Scott, as you have probably found out ....

DRL without swastika was the official version 1934-37 between the DRA of 1913-14/1919-33 and the DRL with Swastika of 1937-45.

All reference books, German or English, regardless of how badly they mangle the actual requirements, know and show that.

But of course they are ALL wrong and Uwe is correct. How stupid of them ...

[speedytop]

Darrell:
"But of course they are ALL wrong and Uwe is correct. How stupid of them ..."

Not stupid, but unsuspecting .


Uwe

[Sonderkommando]

So c'mon guys,
at least one period pic of a DRL without swaz shouldn't be too hard to find considering the '36 Olympics.....there should be 1000's of pics to prove one way or the other.

[speedytop]

Darrell:
“All reference books, German or English, regardless of how badly they mangle the actual requirements, know and show that. “


Let us throw a look at some of these books:

Littlejohn/Dodkins 1970:
“The version with D.R.A. was the first type, this was superseeded by the D.R.L. without a swastika type which in 1937 was succeeded by the last and most common type, the D.R.L. with a swastika.”
The picture on page 85 show the DRL w/o swastika, but with the “tip”.
That is wrong twice; no change in 1937, the picture shows a post war version.


Klietmann 1971, vol. 1 and 2.:
Page 290: It is wrong, that the DRL w/o swastika have maker marks HENSLER, WERNSTEIN and WAGNER, that is only for DRL with swastika.
The picture in vol. 2 shows a post war version.

Angolia 1978, vol. 2:
Twice a wrong statement, please see my posts.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=178399


Forman’s 1988:
Page 188: “D.R.A. Sports Badges c. 1933 (Deutsches Reichsabzeichen für Leibesübungen)”
Both is wrong, it changed 1934/1935, and the name of the badge changed 1934 from "Deutsches Turn- und Sportabzeichen" into "Deutsches Reichs-Sportabzeichen".
The picture Nr. 226 shows a post war version.


Klietmann 1990 “Staatlich-zivile Auszeichnungen”:
The same wrong picture with the DRL w/o swastika on page 97, picture description idiotic (sorry); “Deutsches Turn- und Sportabzeichen – DRL in der Ausführung von 1919.”
1919 !!!!!!
No dates of changing the versions, why not? I think, he did not know it.


Niemann (Detlev) 2004:
The picture on page 353 shows a post war version.
Cloth versions ?? I have never seen one, and if it exists, it is post war.
Entry in the Award Booklet ?? I have never seen one, never!


I still wait for the contemporary pictures and documents, which prove the existence of the DRL w/o swastika.


Regards
Uwe

[speedytop]

Is it usual in this forum to remove complete posts?

That is not usual in other forums.


Regards
Uwe