SS 8 year in question

[Yuri D.]

I have brought up this subject before, and would like to bring it up again. I have a non-standard 8-year SS service medal in it's own case. The name on the inside lower lid of the case is "Ochs & Bonn, Hanau". There is also a flattened area on the tear-drop suspension loop with the number "158" that is struck out with a horizontal slash. "158" is the RZM number for the Ochs & Bonn company. What are people's opinions on this medal. I feel very strongly that it is genuine, because there had to have been more than one firm contracted to manufacture these medals.

[Yuri D.]

Reverse

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Yuri,

The example that you have posted looks original enough to me, in that it displays the characteristics in the metal composite, cross thatching, wreath definition, as well as over definition through out the piece. I would really like to see a close up of the RZM mark if possible.

However; your example is not one of the more common example seen and is most likely an early example. The differences between your example and examples without an RZM number is somewhat considerable; notably in the wreath definition and the overall definition is crisp and clean.

If rarity is based upon availability, then your example would certainly fall with in those paramiters. I have looked at quite a few 8 year pieces and have only come across one other example with the flat loop section and RZM mark. While that doesn't mean much in itself, what it does mean is that; their was more than two known makers. I have always ran into difficulty finding documentaion on the makers of this award and would appriciate any furthur information on known makers, for my personal data.

What was the concenses of this piece when you posted it before?
While I am not sure what the other members might have said, I would have no problem with this piece. But, I think that that would be more of a personal choice.

Another interesting point worth a mention, is why more collectors are not attracted to this award. This may be due to the fact that the award is highly faked ? Or is not exceptionly attractive. I really can not say, but interesting because of the popularity of SS related items.



Best Regards,
JD

[Yuri D.]

Joseph,

There were individuals that shared your opinion on this medal. And there were individuals that felt it deviated too much from the accepted standard for this medal. I got this from Roger Bender a while ago with a very correct 4 year medal that was parade-mounted. I will try to give you a better scan of the struck-out maker mark.

Yuri

[merdock]

ss 8 year

Hi,
heres another medal it has the right measurments the teardrop hanger with the solder joint at the bottom .comments please

Merdock

[merdock]

back

[merdock]

ring close up.

[Richard]

Yuri, your medal is very nice and looks like it has all the details. i must admit that I have never before seen one where the break in the loop is on the side rather than in the center of the smaller end of the loop. Merdock, I can't really decide on your medal. It appears not to have the stipling that the medals should have, detail seems to be lacking and the swaz has the ends of the arms at odd angles, which I have never seen. Personally I would avoid this example but cannot conclusively say that it is not genuine.
Richard V

[keifer kahn]

I would like to address some of josephs points about ss long service medal finishes.
The 4yr was black burnished.
The 8 yr was caramel finished.
The 12yr was silver finished.
The 25yr was gold finished.

As for measurements.38mm is the accepted standard diameter for an ss 8yr.Not only is this the accepted size from authored sources and my own personal observations.Several examples for sale at the the moment considered genuine quote 38mm but there is another clue.The ss 8yr had in standard form,had a 35mm ribbon.Any picture of a standard ribbon with a standard medal,will show that the ribbon width(35mm) would fit just inside the the 38mm diameter of the medal.

As for yuri,s medal.I dont like it.It deviates too much from the standard for me to consider as genuine(and please show me some documentation on these variants,as i would love it for my reference file).That suspension ring says it all,it is much too crude and lacking refinement to be considered something that would of been issued to hitlers elite.To me it looks like an attempt to reproduce the stock teardrop.And has ended up in that typical poor shape.The evidence of another such marked example doesent mean the existence of a third or more makers of this medal,it simply means like 333 or 666 marked iron crosses,there are more than one of this type of marked repros floating around.The trouble is ,unless you can prove its a fake,then suddenly its a variant!Not for my collection.

As for merdoks,the front shows the stipling area to be smooth(but im sure this is the scan),but the rear shows that characterstic random pattern associated with considered originals.
Can you send a better pic?I feel the scan has distorted the image to allow a proper look.I can see enough good points to warrant a second look.

regards keifer

[merdock]

Hi ,
Keifer heres some better pics,the medal is finely stippled in a random fasion on front and reverse.
Merdock

[merdock]

You can see by looking at the end of the swastika that the centre of the medal is not flat but slightly concave as it should.look at the triangular shapped shadow.

[merdock]

more

[Yuri D.]

My example I believe is a legitimate variation to this medal. Most people would not want this in their collections because there is no recognized reference book that indicates it as such. This medal exhibits the traits that are associated with genuine items from the period. The strike and quality are superb. The patina is natural. The dust on the badge is like dust you find on period pieces. The struck-out "158" on the loop matches the manufacturer's name on the box "Ochs and Bonn, Hanau". The ribon is a period ribbon that is neatly stitched together and the pin is a period pin. All of the details of this medal SCREAM period. If there are variations on ultra-rare awards like the German Order (check the thread) why cannot there be legitimate variations on these awards. After all, the SS existed both all over Germany and in Austria at the date of this award's institution. I find it hard to believe that there was only one manufacturer and one style of manufacture for an award that was to be given to so many SS men and officers.

Yuri

[Joseph D'Errico]

In reference to Yuri's example and any award per-say. Their are always going to be ORIGINAL pieces that vary from the normal excepted standards as being textbook. I stronlgy advocate the preservation of the term textbook and all that falls under that heading, but their are going to be examples that stray from what falls under the umbrella of text book. That is when it becomes a personal choice or risk.

I would say and advocate that to collect outside the known paramiters is living dangeriously.

In reference to the 42 mm varient, this example was suggested to be a test strike of the badge by John Angolia and some examples may be out their, not likely but possible. I should have clarified this point in my earlier response.

The reference made to the 35 ribbon is a know indicator well worth the mention as I think it would be a point overlooked in observing the badge. I did.

Thank you Keifer for correcting me on the 12 year finish as well.

Cordially,
JD

[Yuri D.]

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