the Deutscher Orden............

[François SAEZ]

Posted for another collector of this forum:

"Here is something the Germans possibly created to embellish their Christmas-tree : the Deutscher Orden.
More seriously, from a purely aesthetical point of view, this award is probably one of the nicest Third Reich awards. This example is the 3rd Class Steckkreuz (pin back breast cross). The golden tone of the badge is very impressive (it even seems that the swastikas and oakleaves of the eagles have been polished in order to enhance the look). The arms are in black enamel with inserted rows of golden oakleaves. Considered by Hitler as the Party's highest award, the Deutscher Orden bears the Golden Party badge in it's center. The design of this center piece closely resembles the small (= 25 mm) Golden Party badge made by Josef Fuess, but is of a much smaller diameter (= 21 mm). Furthermore, the lettering here is in gold, whereas the normal Golden Party badges have silver lettering."

[François SAEZ]

'The rear of the badge is highly polished and void of any markings. Although the badge is in perfect condition, this image of the back has been enhanced in order to enable one to see that the four eagles are not part of the badge but were separately soldered to it. Additionnal detail : contrary to the few other known badges that have the bottle-shaped pin, this example has a straight cut pin."

[Ken Jasper]

Having never sen a color photo of this Order, I have to ask if this is indeed a genuine piece. I would have thought the red background on the "gold party badge" would have been of much better quality. If genuine, wouldn't this be worth in the neighborhood of $12,000 or more?

[W. C. Stump]

3RD CLASS

The Gold Cross of the German Order 3rd Class was sold through me last year for $7500.00. Here it is.

[Ken Jasper]

Bill, are the orders posted by Francois and you one and the same?

[W. C. Stump]

NOT THE SAME

Ken they are the same class of the order, but not the same order.

[W. C. Stump]

REVERSE OF THE ORDER I POSTED

Reverse.

[François SAEZ]

"Front view of the Deutscher Orden.
Contrary to what could be imagined when looking at the first picture posted, the quality of the central piece or "Golden Party badge" is also of exceptionnal quality :
1° Despite the smaller size, the lettering is comparatively more precise than the Fuess-made Golden Party badge that unquestionably served as model for the center piece of the Deutscher Orden.
2° Although still not easily discernible on the picture, the enamel is perfectly smooth and level with the lettering : i.e. there are not any slightest recesses around the lettering, which, by the way, doesn't even seem to be the case on Fuess-made Golden Party badges."

[David Tiffin]

How many makers made these? I thought there was only one but, I noticed the hinge/pin setup is different. I would have thought them all to be the same. Comments?

[W. C. Stump]

WILHELM DEUMER

There was only one manufactuer of the German Order and that was Wilhelm Deumer, Lunenschied. I also have problems with the badge. I have the reverse of another example from Bill Shea's site. Note the pin is not straight, but has the coke bottle design.

[W. C. Stump]

QUALITY OF ENAMEL

Another think that I noted that I don't like is the quality of the enamel work. Deumer is noted for their fire baked enamel. Here is another example of the glossy deeply riched enamel of a Deumer German Cross.

[François SAEZ]

"If you read again the description of the second picture of this thread, you will notice that already then had been said that "contrary to the few other known badges that have the bottle-shaped pin, this example has a straight cut pin". To me, the 'problem' of the shape of the pin is not a fair argument to hastily reject this badge. For example, I know a collector who has several Kriegsmarine Coastal Artillery badges, all taken from the same factory that produced them : the front and rear of these badges are absolutely identical on all of them but there are at least four different combinations of hinges, pins and catches !
On the other hand, professionnal filing is visible on the sides of the pin of the 'problematic' Deutscher Orden and it is also possible that the bottle-shaped pin could have been trimmed prior to assembling : but the question would then be 'why would this have been done ?'.
Anyway, the fact that only one maker produced the Deutscher Orden should lead us to focus on the details of the badge itself. Unfortunately, the other posted pictures shown as reference are far from clear and furthermore, the darkness of the pictures tends to add a mystical and convincing look. In comparison, the oversized 'problematic' Deutscher Orden will, of course, look 'badly detailed', with 'poor enamel', 'not of the correct gilt tone', etc.

Here is the rear of the 'problematic' Deutscher Orden. Notice the 'shadows' or discrete purple stains caused by the Feuervergoldung (fire gilding). Thanks to the rather good quality pictures of the Deutscher Orden in Bill Shea's catalog, we can see that this feature is also visible on the rear right arm of his badge.
Concerning the size, the 'problematic' Deutscher Orden measures 48 mm x 48 mm. Any comments on the size ?"

[W. C. Stump]

COULD BE AN ANOMALY

If I encountered the badge posted for another party on the collector's market, I would reject it flat. It is not a typical Deumer badge. Also, even in the many anomalies that was produced by Deumer none are like this badge in any way. In short, this is the first badge of the type that I have ever seen in all my years collecting. The biggest turn off for me is the quality of the enamel. Finally, the lettering in the party badge seems to be gold. If so it is definately wrong as the lettering is silver on original specimens. Not being able to inspect it first hand, and from what I have seen, I will just say that it would not be for my collection.

[François SAEZ]

"Close-up on the center piece or "Golden Party badge" and the eagles. Of course, at such extreme close view, some parts might look 'imperfect', especially where the eagle's wings were soldered to the arms of the badge. However, details are absolutely identical to referenced examples.
The lettering and edges of the swastika are gilt. On the other hand, on the Deutscher Orden Bill Shea has for sale at present, the lettering looks of a more silver tint. Comments ?"

[W. C. Stump]

BILL SHAE'S GERMAN ORDER IN CLOSE UP

Bill's badge is just as an original is suppose to look like. The lettering is SILVER, not gold as in the badge you posted.