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    Medal Bar help please

    Hello gentlemen;
    I am very new to the WW1 arena and need some help deciphering this medal bar. From what little I know, this is:

    EK2
    KC w/swords Hohenzollern HO
    Friedrich August cross (which class, 2nd?)
    Hanseatic Cross - Hamburg
    Hindenburg Cross
    ?Schlesischer Adler something something? HELP! What is this award for?
    25LS
    12LS
    Golden Hochzeit Medal for Jubilee 1918? HELP! What is this awarded for?

    Sorry for the poor pics, my Mavica POS is failing me. THe HHO is stamped "FR" and it looks like the content is 939(?). Any idea of a value on this?
    Attached Files

    #2
    Reverse...
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      NICE!!!! Should be traceable, virtually certainly NAVY. Mark is 938 = silver gilt.

      I'll be baaaaack!!!

      Comment


        #4
        WOW!!! THanks for the speedy reply, Rick. I will be here waiting, but please take your time.
        Regards,
        Stuart

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          #5
          I'm baaaaaack! God, the navy is so EASY!

          There were actually THREE officers with the "same" awards-- the ones that show in the Rank Lists. (The Silesian Eagle and the Bavarian Christmas 1918 Wedding Jubilee Medal-- actually awarded ... well, we'll go into all that! )

          Two of the three don't show ribbon bars or medal bars in their portraits in the Admirals' biographies. One does. Luckily service records complete "the rest of the story."

          Oops! Did I say "Admiral?"

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            #6
            Thanks Rick;
            I do own this and have it in my possession. Its funny because the little ol' lady down the street said she'd give me this if I took her twin, 18 year old grand daughters out on the town. They are here visiting from Sweden. After thinking about this deal for a couple days, I finally caved in and accepted. Did I do good?

            Comment


              #7
              Uh Huh!

              Why join the Wehrmacht Collectors Association, people ask? Because Ricky no do this for free for NON members, that's why!

              Here he is, Misssssssster Admirrrrral:
              Attached Files

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                #8
                Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                You did verrrrrrrrry good

                Identified by the Master, it has a makers label as well !!!!

                I am sure that taking the 18 year old Swedish twins out was no hardship either

                Comment


                  #9
                  We'll get back to the bar itself after going through the original owner's life and career.

                  As I mentioned, there were THREE naval officers (and the WW1 "coastal" states' awards with Silesian Eagle from waaaay on the other side of Germany always shouts "Marine Brigade Freikorps"!) who had the awards LISTED in annual Rank Lists, which did NOT include the Silesian Eagles.

                  They were Ralf von der Marwitz (1888-1966) a Vizeadmiral zS, or Wilhelm Rhein (1887-1964) a Konteradmiral zS zV, or Kurt Fricke (1889-1945) a full Admiral zur See but a boorish Nazi, even if he did get a Knight's Cross.

                  How to get around the problem of "invisible" awards? Using the OUTSTANDING series by Hans Hildebrand and Ernest Henriot, "Deutschlands Admirale 1849-1945," published in Osnabrück by Biblio Verlag 1988-1990. The photo and two pages of biography following are © them 1990 from Band 3.

                  Von der Marwitz is wearing his full medal bar in his bio portrait, so we know this did not belong to him. Neither Fricke nor Rhein show ribboned awards in their closeups, but that is where the esteemed Herrn Hildebrand and Henriot's DAY BY DAY entries provide answers not to be found by looking, for instance, at the 1931 Marine Rangliste entry for this bar's original owner--
                  Attached Files

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                    #10
                    Each entry in these Must Have books starts with a portrait, birth and death info, promotions, and begins with the admiral's career:
                    Attached Files

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                      #11
                      While the extraordinary Marine Ehrenrangliste 1914-1918 of 1931 gave first names, birthdates, and MONTH by month WW1 assignements, as well as promotions up to publication date, "Deutschlands Admirale" extends back and forth for each admiral's FULL career, literally day by day.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        So, we see that in addition to the ribboned awards on this medal bar, Rear Admiral Rhein had a WW1 Iron Cross 1st Class (of course), an Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 1st Class, and the 1918 version Uboat badge.

                        For he was a very successful Flanders Flotilla Uboat commander indeed.

                        His Prussian Hohenzollern House Order 3rd Class with Swords was gazetted in the Marine-Verordnungsblatt on 2 November 1918, which means it was probably actually awarded a month or more earlier. Of the 4 submarines he commanded, two were later lost to enemy action, UB16 and UB 30, indicating that the odds were not much better in the First World War for submariners than in the Second. Although over 8,000 HHOXs were awarded as the step below a Pour le Merite in WW1, only 320 total went to naval officers-- submarine commanders, airship COs, torpedo boat and destroyer leaders, marine officers, and naval aviators.

                        And, thanks to "Deutschlands Admirale" (may their © endure forever and they always remain in print! ), it is possible to verify that-- sure enough-- the only man with these awards who served with a Freikorps was our Wilhelm Rhein.

                        The II. Marine Brigade was aka "Brigade Ehrhardt." Many non-naval members drifted into far right politics in the 1920s, and indeed the Ehrhardt Brigade was the main armed force in the unsuccessful Kapp Putsch of March 1920 which attempted to overthrow the Weimar Republic in Berlin.

                        Rank Lists, "Deutschlands Admirale," the tireless efforts of Herrn Willi Geile and Michael Autengruber to publish WW1 award rolls, and such "strange" sources as the Directories of the German Naval Officers' Association (MOV and later MOH) provide further details:

                        Admiral Rhein's wife Wilma was born 8 December 1901. In 1960 they were living at Feldstrasse 61, Düsseldorf, telephone 44 22 06. He was employed by the MOH as their Social Worker at the Krefeld branch office....

                        Next (huff! puff!) on to the actual awards on this fine medal bar!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As mentioned above, a Hohenzollern with Swords in the navy was a VERY big deal indeed. So much of the imperial fleet basically sat in port throughout the war, that when one of these turns up, it is virtually always for prolonged combat (rather than staff work) and that narrowed down the eligible officers considerably.

                          The "vor dem Feinde" bar on the Oldenburg Cross was an official added distinction, but I have never seen statutory description of WHO was to receive it--or WHY. Most holders of the Friedrich August Cross 1st Class did NOT get it. Numbers are unknown. Unlike the "Bewährungsabzeichen" found on Brunswick Ernst August Crosses 2nd Class, this "in the face of the enemy" bar was NEVER distinguished in Rank Lists-- which makes photographic evidence important. Hamburg and Oldenburg were both liberal in granting awards, to the army as well as the navy. The Silesian Eagle 2nd Class was given for Polish border service between 1919 and 1921, with a pinback 1st class for longer service. These were official awards after 1933.

                          The last piece is most PECULIAR!

                          Originally intended as a non-wearable "coin," it was to have been handed out at the King and Queen of Bavaria's wedding jubilee on Christmas Day 1918, to attendees of the--obviously--cancelled celebration. Stored away in a crate somewhere, it was decided that they were personal property of the Wittelsbachs.

                          When the King died in 1921, former Crown Prince Rupprecht decided to hand them out (figuring the black coating was an appropriate Memento Mori, presumably), and funeral attendees were handed one, along with an ANONYMOUS "Dear Invited Guest, Thanks for coming" presentation document (I have one--it is too large to be scanned). Recipients soon began WEARING this "award," and Rupprecht decided to authorize suspension rings. It will almost always be found on the ribbon of the military Jubilee Medals of 1905-11, as here.

                          Like other "decorations" bestowed by ex-German rulers in the Weimar period, these were granted grudging semi-official recognition. When the Duke of Saxe-Coburg became a rabid Nazi and liberally strewed versions of his House Order on his Party Cronies, even the Nazis had to grit their teeth and give ALL such awards the same "dynastic" approval-- which ENDED in late 1933.

                          So while this strange Christmas/funeral/royalist merit award is often found mounted in Third Reich groups, the really strange thing is-- how did a NON-Bavarian serving NAVAL officer end up with one? We can only assume he hosted Rupprecht at some social occasion, and was handed one for his "trouble."

                          The Bavarian military jubilee ribbon is quite often found in the Weimar and Third Reich period "making due" for the similar ribbon of several Turkish awards, but this mounting lines up perfectly-- and Rhein had no such ribboned Turkish award. Nor did either of the other two.

                          A nice clear photo of Admiral Rhein nattily attired in full parade dress or wearing his ribbon bar will simply be the final confirmation that he did, somehow, own this bar.

                          (This thread has been copied from the Imperial Forum because it is ALSO a Third Reich Wehrmacht medal bar. Other Wehrmacht medal bars may be found in the back pages of this Forum by doing a search for "Wehrmacht medal bar" or bars. See also a number of outstanding Wehrmacht General officer bars to be found in the Collections and Individual Research Forum, thread started by WNickel there showing his collection.)

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