Is the UV Light test the ultimate test?

[File21]

Here's a link to a video I uploaded, I burned a piece of thread from a ribbon, I think it's synthetic. Whatever the results turn out to be, it can be used as reference material for other collectors

Filip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGMSWViSKAE

[all1knew]

can be used as reference material for other collectors

Filip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGMSWViSKAE

A great idea Filip.

William Kramer

[Stahlhelm]

Hello everyone:

From what I've read about all of these glowing materials, who invented them, and when they were used (specifically by the Germans, actually long before WWII), the UV test necessarily proves not one thing related to an item's authenticity. I will repeat that. Since the sulfates (which are what cause the glowing) were invented and used in pre-war Germany, the UV test can't possibly prove a thing other than the fact that sulfates are in the tested material. Worse yet, what happens if some previous collector has washed something since May 1945 in sulfate-rich detergents? Then, an original WWII item gets branded a fake.

Also, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a dealer or collector at a militaria show get out the portable UV wand and magically wave it over something, before he even looks at anything else about the item he's testing. More than once, I've even asked a UV light weilding dealer what exactly the UV light is detecting and causing to glow and, more than once, a dealer has not had an answer.

To me, UV lights are just the easy way for people to do somehting simple to determine something that is otherwise really not so simple. Although a UV light may provide some helpful information, in special cases, it is not the unquestionable answer to detecting fakes. Sometimes I wish I had never read a particular article on the subject, since it just created another one of those "inconvenient truthes" which I now have to deal with myself. I read this article I've mentioned in a respected Military Magazine, the name of which I cannot currently remember. However, when it comes to me (and I know it will), I'll post the name of the magazine, the volume, and even the exact page it's on. I think I even have a copy of the article around here somewhere. It sure made me change my whole view of the powers of a UV light, and I've never thought of using one since. As a matter of fact, I believe that very article is even posted in a thread somewhere on this forum. If I can find it, I'll post a link to it myself.

I know some of you are going to very seriously disagree with me. However, please always remember that I post my opinion only to stimulate productive, polite discussion, which in turn, may stimulate further knowledge and learning. If I am ever wrong, I will always be the first to eat my words and admit it. So, if there's something about this I don't know, I'd love to hear it.

Sincerely,

Chris

[torstenbel]

Chris, there was a very good article posted within this thread. Cheers, Torsten.

[Stahlhelm]

Chris, there was a very good article posted within this thread. Cheers, Torsten.

Thanks, Torsten!

Chris

[Andy B.]

OK guys, I just bought a German eagle order medal with ribbon and decided to check the UV properties of it. The white glowed bright as day, however, a piece of white strand at the end of the ribbon did not glow at all. I have no question about the authenticity of the medal, but found it strange that the white section glowed. Now, I also did a check on a piece of ribbon from an ek2 spange, where the spange is a repro. However, that ribbon did not glow at all. Leading me to believe the spange was put on a good ribbon.
Now I did photograph the ribbons together under the uv. I just thought I'd see what ya'll think.....

Sincerely Andy B.

[bikerboyzx6r]

Just to clarify... please dont confuse a light with a glow! a purple light WILL show up on an item... its when the item turns a bright blue glow, is what we are talking about.
I have over 800 ww2 documents, letters etc... and not one glows in the blue glow light!
I use either a fake note detector light or security pen uv light.
You can buy Black light bulbs from electrical stores alot cheaper than kits off ebay.
Regards
Dan

[bikerboyzx6r]

Andy,
any ribbon i have that i have bought as repro, glows like that! A ribbon on my ek2 that is genuine doesnt glow, just like your top ribbon. Great photo to show matey!
Dan

[münster]

I have accidentaly washed a ribbon in my pocket of my trousers. It glowed afterwards.

[Andy B.]

Andy,
any ribbon i have that i have bought as repro, glows like that! A ribbon on my ek2 that is genuine doesnt glow, just like your top ribbon. Great photo to show matey!
Dan

Thanks Dan, the one question I have is why the loose strand (thats attached to the ribbon that glows) does not glow. When not under UV, the strand is just as white as the edging of that ribbon.
Andy

[Feldwebel]

Its a good tool but not difinitive

[Filip]

I think it is a perfect tool when it comes to paper items such as photos, docs, etc. In regards to cloth , will never rely on it 100%. Just got recently white Olympia 1936 pendant that is original without any doubt. Guess what ..the thing glows like crazy. However, it displays signs of being washed on least one occasion. You do that with white stuff especially, you know.

[FLiPSiDE]

I personally think the UV light test is a valuable tool (as the period pieces I own don't glow but the known reproduction items I have do). If I was looking at an item that I was on the fence about buying, and it fluoresced like my newest white pair of socks under the UV light keychain I carry around, I would pass. As others have said there are lots of items out there, so why not just wait for one that does not light-up like the crowd at an Iron Butterfly concert. Just one guys opinion tho...

Also has anyone done a thread which tested some of these theories about items glowing after being washed. As I've seen the way items glow after being washed but it isn't (to my knowledge) in a completely uniform manner. In my experience with UV light you would see a streak or glob of where the laundry detergent first made contact with the cloth, and that spot would glow noticibly under UV light until the next time you washed the item. Otherwise if it was just the chemicals in the detergent making everything glow evenly why would my dark color clothing not glow all the time (since I wash everything in the same "Tide" brand detergent)?

Does anybody know where I can buy period non-glowing replacement EK2 ribbons so I can do a test and post the process/results in a thread on WAF? I would invest my time and money in this as I find it very interesting.

Also I think the UV test really only works well for white colored items. And as others have said you need to be careful that you aren't just seeing a reflection of the blueish UV light on the white threads instead of an actual "reaction".

[Bigbander]

as a collector - and not a dealer - i would say this. IF fake items never not glow, then why would you want to ever open yourself up the "possibility" that it could be a fake...i have never heard any of my collectors friends say glow is ok...and ONLY have heard it from dealers known to pawn fakes...thats in my circle...i'm new to the boards here and so far -- so good

[Noor]

Ok, here is one my ribbon bar with the rare combination. Ribbons don't glow, also metal plate/pin system is good period ones, but I don't like the stiches so to me this one is made up bar. Anyone think diferently?
I think UV Light test is good most of the cases for checking items.

Hohenzollern bar with two NSDAP LS awards....



And under the uv light....