Why I disagree....

[MGN]

Hey Gerd!
Yes its another badge! No argument there, they are two different badges. So what should I presume? The one I have is a fake because it doesn't match yours? That doesn't make any sense. I wanted to ask you or anyone else that has the info Was there only one manufacture of APB's

[landsknechte]

Thanks Chris for the link,
Why dont you post your opinion also.

To be honest, I don't really have an opinion (on the badge).

--Chris

[Willi Z.]

Rather than everyone take the time in an effort to try to prove yours is bad MGN, when we know this thread will never end, why don't you tell us all why you think (based on features) it is original. Provide some of your own proof, rather than demand others do so. You already made it clear what you think with your title for this thread.

By reviewing the last time we had a thread on this exact badge (3 pages worth), it is clear that alot of very knowledgable people took alot of time to try to help. Review your comments of what you thought about the opinions of others, and then yourself ask why you expect people to again go to so much trouble.

[MGN]

Well, its kinda simple .
I know where it came from! Thats my proof take it or leave it. I woudln't buy one today with all the high end repros around. This one came "out of the woodwrok" thats the only reason why I purchased the whole lot. Nothing else in the lot turned out bad, so because it doesn't match up with others it means its a fake? Right... Yes, the title explains my frustration on this badge. Rather than throwing it in the bad pile lets examine it, the reason for this thread was to explore the area of a real APB that hasn't been documented.

[MGN]

Ah it seems that you added a new part to your response. Let me address that also. As you read the thread you will notice that the badge it right away assumed to be made by Junker. This is why I asked the very same question before: Was the firm Junker the only manufacture of these bdages? I have still not received an answer.

[Jos L C]

Concerning MGN's badge I'll say a few words..

I'm not very deep into APB's though..
I'll try to judge it as I see it..
Then I must say I see a rather nice badge with good features etc..
Now and then we've seen that some strange makers show up..
A couple of strange IMME pilotbadges came up the last few years etc. and they were originals.
I agree it's hard to prove when a badge is unknown ,but we've no proof to say it's a fake either..,unless we've that information.
Difficult..,I agree there're still some missing links in "badge world"..

Jos.

[JohnC]

MGN,

When you posted your badge last year, the folks who responded have seen, handled and studied this type of badge AND its origins more than anyone else, period. Through this study, the characteristics of what a good badge is have come to being. Compare that to "I got it directly from the vet who brought it back, so its real" and which one do you think we should go with?

Could there have been other makers? Maybe, but those who have done the leg work haven't found them. Just Junker.

Could yours be real? Maybe, but compared to those in advanced collections, the dozens and dozens that have been studied that came from the German vet himself, the records of production from Germany etc., yours does not match. Take the advice or enjoy the badge, the FJ sign and the cloth helmet cover!

[MGN]

JohnC,
You, not me, seem to contridict yourself:
" the folks who responded have seen, handled and studied this type of badge"

I dont think they studied this one in particular, its not a badge that has been discussed before because no one can say its an ouright fake. The characteristics are exactly like the ones found on earlier badges.

You should go with the correct one.

So what? You are saying that because it was an American GI that brought it back makes it wrong and a copy/repro whatever you want to call it? You are seriously mistaken.

[Jos L C]

I'm wondering..IF this badge is a original,would it make a chance when only Juncker is accepted ?

I think no..

I understand,till now it's Juncker and nothing else ?

Then I'm afraid other makers,if there're,will never come to light..


Jos.

[MGN]

Jos,
The badge for me is original no question about it, sooner or later someone else while find another one and things will change hopefully, if future collectors keep an open mind . But until then, it doesn't look promising, a one way street.

[Jos L C]

Well,if this badge was mine,I would present it in the badge forum as "just a badge" and not a APB in specific..
I'd have it compared to any Army,Navy or luft badge concerning hinge,catch,rivets,casting technique and finish..

Just give it a try..

Jos.

[JohnC]

First, your badge has been discussed before! Three pages worth last year!

Second, the characteristics are NOT "exactly like the ones found on earlier badges". That's the whole point MGN! Of all the Heer para badges studied, the bubbling, hinge and rivets on yours do not match!

I would love to see others come forward or research show that this is a real one, that would make it a great find for you indeed! I'm simply saying it just does not match with all the work and research that has been done on the Heer para badge to date.

JohnC,
You, not me, seem to contridict yourself:
" the folks who responded have seen, handled and studied this type of badge"

I dont think they studied this one in particular, its not a badge that has been discussed before because no one can say its an ouright fake. The characteristics are exactly like the ones found on earlier badges.

You should go with the correct one.

So what? You are saying that because it was an American GI that brought it back makes it wrong and a copy/repro whatever you want to call it? You are seriously mistaken.

[MGN]

John,
Yes it was discussed before, I am not talking about one thread but a good study of this particular badge.

This is where you are going into the same direction as the other folks were. John please understand its not 'bubbling' but the way the metal is. Maybe its easier to notice it when its in your hands. It looks like small particals not bubbling as seen in the picture below:



"with all the work and research that has been done on the Heer para badge to date"
I guess we have to investigate a little more

[Jos L C]

Of all the Heer para badges studied, the bubbling, hinge and rivets on yours do not match!

So,it can be another maker,not ?
The bubbling is normal on zink badges,like sand was applied..
I think it's funny the APB is a closed book..
AND so we've stopped to discuss any other badges,BECAUSE all the rest are fakes..
Maybe so,but I and maybe some others like to investigate badges AND a lot of new information has come to light ,we're not done IMO...although we sometimes think..
Believe me,I've seen many weird items the last few years and you won't find them in any book sofar..
Just a opinion..

jos.

[MGN]

JohnC,
Seriously now, maybe you cant see the two images properly, maybe its your monitor?

Can someone post a photo with both of them sided by side?

Jos,
"So,it can be another maker,not ?" This is a question I have asked and asked again. If someone honestly and with 100% can say that Junker made the only APB then I rest my case. But its not so....

"I think it's funny the APB is a closed book.."

Depends on who's book you read