Prym snaps.

[Lone Pine]

Can anyone tell me if the Prym brand snap was the only brand used on German Para stuff during the war?. Also I have been told that if you have an item with "original Prym" marked on the female part of the snap, rather than just Prym, it can be automatically deducted to be post war. Is that true?.
Regards Bruce.

[SMP]

Hi Bruce,

In general ALL smocks use PRYM snaps , there are only a few proven originals that use an other type. ( ask Willi ). Likewise , most jump trousers use PRYM, though a few have been found with W.U.K snaps.
Items such has helmet straps and bandoleers use a mix of snaps including PRYM, STOCKO , W.U.K., and various non-maker snaps with floral (filigree )patterns and some star patterns ( on the button side ).
All "ORIGINAL PRYM" marked snaps are post-war.
I am sure others will have something to add to this brief review.

Regrards,
Steve

[John Hodgin]

Hello Bruce,

This has been discussed often, you should do a search and read the other threads.

Original Prym is only post war. In fact, here in the US, many jackets in Dept. stores have 'Original Prym' snaps on them. I have an 'Eddie Bauer' jacket that has them.

Bandoleer flaps and jump helmet straps can have all kinds of snaps on them, stocko, prym, filigree design, etc.. Gas mask bags and smocks usually have Prym snaps, but have seen a late war tan/water jump smock with stocko snaps, this is very unusual.

Lastly, Prym snaps are now being repro'ed. Post photos of them here and we will help you.
Regards,
John

[Lone Pine]

Gyday John and Steve
I can't post photo's as I'm not a paid member yet. This may change as I think this forum can be very usefull. There seems to be many experts on lots of different subjects. Thanks for your help, I have a water pattern jump smock with Stocko snaps on it, I'm pretty sure it's original. I also have a splinter camo bandoloir, has been used with a faint RBN number and date, 1944, but the snaps have "original prym" on them. I suppose that means it's bad eh?. I also have a helmet I bought last year, which I'm sure is the one pictured in the hall of shame. It's the tan painted one that is quoted to be a czech fake?. What are the features to look for in a Czech fake helmet?. Thanks for your help, much apreciated.
Bruce

Hello Bruce,

This has been discussed often, you should do a search and read the other threads.

Original Prym is only post war. In fact, here in the US, many jackets in Dept. stores have 'Original Prym' snaps on them. I have an 'Eddie Bauer' jacket that has them.

Bandoleer flaps and jump helmet straps can have all kinds of snaps on them, stocko, prym, filigree design, etc.. Gas mask bags and smocks usually have Prym snaps, but have seen a late war tan/water jump smock with stocko snaps, this is very unusual.

Lastly, Prym snaps are now being repro'ed. Post photos of them here and we will help you.
Regards,
John

[SMP]

Hi Bruce,
I would be concerned if one of my smocks had STOCKO snaps. I would say 99.9 % of original smocks had PRYM . Many well made repro smocks use STOCKO snaps.
The bandoleer is definitely post-war.
Could you provide more details of the tan helmet. If it is a size ET71 and has a "foot" at the bottom of the "1" , then it is also a known fake.
Some photos would be useful. I suggest you become an associate member, because posting photos before you buy something can save you a lot of heartache, not to mention cash.

Regards,
Steve

[Lone Pine]

Steve

Well it looks like I've been had again. This on top of a bad encounter with the Latvian's has soured my taste for German militaria. I think I would do better to sell all my German stuff for whatever I can get and collect something else. It's just not worth the worry.
Regards Bruce

Hi Bruce,
I would be concerned if one of my smocks had STOCKO snaps. I would say 99.9 % of original smocks had PRYM . Many well made repro smocks use STOCKO snaps.
The bandoleer is definitely post-war.
Could you provide more details of the tan helmet. If it is a size ET71 and has a "foot" at the bottom of the "1" , then it is also a known fake.
Some photos would be useful. I suggest you become an associate member, because posting photos before you buy something can save you a lot of heartache, not to mention cash.

Regards,
Steve

[John Hodgin]

Don't give up Bruce. Anything worthwhile is tough. Most everyone here has had this happen to them. Stick around here and learn before you buy. Also, go slow and start small.

At different times throughout the 1980s I bought at least eight jump smocks from Germany. The dealer claimed each smock they sent was authentic, they were not. I firmly requested they take them back and they did.

On the downside, I paid a guy in Vegas thousands for a camo jump helmet. The shell was authentic but the paint was postwar. Returned it, the creep kept my money and the helmet. Plan to visit him someday

[Gary Cain]

Hey John,
I know the SOB in question and only live 9 hours away(7 if I can speed!) And have friends on Vegas Metro it would be a pleasure to pay him a 'visit'.

Gary

Don't give up Bruce. Anything worthwhile is tough. Most everyone here has had this happen to them. Stick around here and learn before you buy. Also, go slow and start small.

At different times throughout the 1980s I bought at least eight jump smocks from Germany. The dealer claimed each smock they sent was authentic, they were not. I firmly requested they take them back and they did.

On the downside, I paid a guy in Vegas thousands for a camo jump helmet. The shell was authentic but the paint was postwar. Returned it, the creep kept my money and the helmet. Plan to visit him someday

[Lone Pine]

John

The place that this helmet, jump smock and other stuff I bought originally came from, was a bloke in Arizona, USA. I bought it from a yank living here in Australia, who bought it from K.H in Arizona. Do you know who I'm talking about?.
Regards Bruce

Don't give up Bruce. Anything worthwhile is tough. Most everyone here has had this happen to them. Stick around here and learn before you buy. Also, go slow and start small.

At different times throughout the 1980s I bought at least eight jump smocks from Germany. The dealer claimed each smock they sent was authentic, they were not. I firmly requested they take them back and they did.

On the downside, I paid a guy in Vegas thousands for a camo jump helmet. The shell was authentic but the paint was postwar. Returned it, the creep kept my money and the helmet. Plan to visit him someday

[John Hodgin]

G'day Bruce,

No, I do not know who K.H. is, but other members may. Please become a member and post photos of these pieces. Til then you can email them to me to look at and post. PM me with your email address. Don't give up on the smock til we've checked it out. Steve is correct however, many repro smocks have stocko snaps.

Gary, please PM me too with the guy's name and we'll see if it the same slimey crook.
Best,
John

[Katsumasa]

Hi
Comes from my good friend & He told me the TTL number of these REPRO PRYM 6 Snaps(300,000),And ...BEWARE their 2nd edition of "round 6" type.



I got few of these last week,

[SMP]

Hi Bruce,

Like John says, don't give up. Although the quality of fake German militaria has reached an all time high, so has the number of superb quality reference books which can help you differentiate original from fake. Collecting German militaria is no different from collecting any other type of expensive antique, after all you wouldn't invest thousands of dollars in a painting or a piece of jewelry unless you had done your homework and were sure it was original first.
This forum has some of the best experts in their specific fields and each is willing to help even the newest member with the smallest purchase.
We've all been there, and each new piece is a challange.

Best wishes,
Steve


Hey Katsumasa, can we see one of the latest fake PRYM 6 snaps ?

[Lone Pine]

Steve

Yes your right, I don't think I could give it up, I love it too much. It's just frustrating when you see your resourses withered away by these missguided purchaces. In the school of collecting I have already earned a diploma from the university of Latvia, now I may get another one from the U.S. Learning all the time. Are there any books in particular you can recommend?. Am reading a good one at the moment, that's where I learned about the Prym snaps, but it's not mine. I've only borrowed it.
Regards Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Like John says, don't give up. Although the quality of fake German militaria has reached an all time high, so has the number of superb quality reference books which can help you differentiate original from fake. Collecting German militaria is no different from collecting any other type of expensive antique, after all you wouldn't invest thousands of dollars in a painting or a piece of jewelry unless you had done your homework and were sure it was original first.
This forum has some of the best experts in their specific fields and each is willing to help even the newest member with the smallest purchase.
We've all been there, and each new piece is a challange.

Best wishes,
Steve


Hey Katsumasa, can we see one of the latest fake PRYM 6 snaps ?

[Katsumasa]

I have a photo only.Sorry,They're not sell these to me,,Will try my best to get some for research.




White steel or Bornze
Light weight & soft

[SMP]

Hi Katsumasa,

That new generation "PRYM 6" is very bad news. The only reason to change the shape of the "6" was to help the fakers.

Bruce,
The 2 best books currently out are :
Soldat Volume 8 by Chris Mason, and German Paratroops by Robert Kurtz.

I think 2005 will see the release of several new books on the subject, including a new book on jump smocks and a second volume to the Kurtz book.

Of course the best source of information is still right here on this forum.

Regards,
Steve