Unusual Paratrooper Grouping

[H BABERT]

I have seen these photos before somewhere....on this forum! I will check them out as there were some oddities with them!

Hello Ian,
it's here...http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=fakes

Herlé

[Ludwig]

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[Eric Queen]

As much as I appreciate everyones efforts to find something wrong with this set, I must admit I am somewhat surprised by the comments ( "more awards at the same rank, so something must be wrong"...........wow )

Let me offer some comments of my own, as follows.

1. Yes, the Panzerkampfabzeichen der Luftwaffe was awarded ( on paper ) This is well documented. Klaus Peters had a set ( of documents ) that came directly from the vet. My father also has a soldbuch to a StuG recon guy who was awarded both the PKA d. Lw. as well as the Nahkampfspange d. Lw. Both Grenadiers and Crew Members/Gunners could qualify for the badge ( I believe it was 3 combat engagements on 3 different days ) and the badge ( if it had gone into production ) whould have had a silver wreath for crew members and a black wreath for Grenadiers.

2. "same rank, more awards". Not really sure how to address this other to say it really doesn't concern me much. I have personally know a number of paratroopers that held the same rank for 3 or 4 years. Some were receipients of very high awards. Willi Peters, whom was a good friend of mine, was in since 1935, won 5 tank strips, DK in Gold and just about everything else, and never made it past Sgt.

3. The photographs. I have collected photographs for many years, and what I know is THESE photos are original. I did read the post from TOMMY, but could not understand what he based his comments on. Just "this dealer sells fakes". How does Tommy know they are fakes? And the other comments, "same guy, more awards". What does that prove? I did not see the ones posted in that thread in the flesh, so I cannot say definatively what they are. Perhaps copies of these originals ( which I certainly have seen happen before on ebay ), more than likely though, they were original as well. I know that there were a number of photos that came out of this guys estate, and some were sold previously on ebay. I did buy one other lot from the seller, which I will attach here. All the same guy, and all 100% unquestionably original. It was not uncommon for some people to have many copies of the same photograph, especially portraits. I met a man once who still had over 20 of the same (printed pre 1945) photograph of himself.



4. The German is wrong. Well, I guess that has been solved.

5. The wrong kind of document. As far as I know, and what I think they are saying here, is that a formal "printed" document was not available. I don't believe one was ever produced. The 2 original documents that I have seen for this badge, were just like this. And yes, the FP Nummer is there, but very light because of how the stamp picked up the ink ( like the left side of the eagle )

Thanks again for the comments.

EQ

[Chris]

I despair for this Forum sometimes, I really do. People who don't know a Nahkampspange is worn above an Iron Cross, who can't speak German, who have no idea what constitutes an original photograph, or who wouldn't know an original artifact if it fell out of a tree and hit them on the head populate this Forum with ignorance, opinion, nonsense and foolish conjecture (such as more decorations for bravery must equate to promotion in rank, for example). It is perfectly obvious that this group is not only completely original, but a stunning and important addition to what is known about these two Luftwaffe awards.

[John Hodgin]

Don't Despair Chris!

This is open discussion and something this rare will be debated regardless of provenance and Eric's knowledge of paper which exceeds all but that of his father.

I'm very impressed by this group, and though my knowledge of paper is not as thorough as that of cloth, I think all of this group is beautiful and authentic. I too have an Italian-German doc., also to a para and signed by Schirmer. It is identical to this one. The photos seem to me to be unquestionalble.
Superb and incredibly rare. Congratulations Eric. History!

[erichcraciun]

Very nice Eric.

When I first saw the foto of this man, I thought it was Georg Stiehl. He was also in Africa and was in fact with 17 the yougest FJ to win the EK2 in Afrika. They look similar. I see no problem with the documents or fotos.

I also completely agree with Chris' comments.

Erich Craciun

[H BABERT]

Hello Collectors,

It is not a shame to have doubt about Eric's papers, the reason of this forum is receiving everybody, not an elite ,i said everybody : those who know, those who think they know all ,and those, like me, who learn everyday...(remember, John, SS cartridge...). Being humble must be the way of all collectors, the man who think he know all have nothing to do in this forum,especially if he don't want to share his knowledge otherwise than mockery.
sorry for my English...but i learn everyday with you
(my original question was : why a guy who receive wound badge as oberjager, didn't wear it in 3 different photo as unteroffizier(OK for the two photo with only EKI, maybe he took photo just after receiving the EK...)??? It wasn't: "he had a lot of awards and he is only unteroffizier?"

Herlé

[Lloyd I.]

Very interesting docs and images

Thanks for sharing all the photos and documents you have for this well decorated and well traveled veteran. It is nice to see the progression and wear of awards and nice to see his hair managed to calm down on certain days Nice to see the ground combat badge as well. I have always liked the design of it.

He survived the war then leading to his estate sale? My own grandfather was an Uffz from 41 to 44. Not all armies promote according to time in grade or promote according to the amount of medals you wear. I know plenty of NCOs or officers who have a nice rack of medals but as leaders couldnt find their way out of a paper bag.

[John Hodgin]

Hello Collectors,

sorry for my English...but i learn everyday with you

Herlé

Your English is great! I too am learing.
Regards,
John

[PANZERPIONIERE]

Great stuff Eric,

I feel that collecting groupings like this is the way to go anymore with prices out of this world on everything else.
Very historical.
Steve

[Frank Heukemes]

Just to confirm it once more:

Papierersparnis is of course correct German.

My father had many (contemporary) copies of his portrait picture made. I also have pics of his halftrack, one pic of that series I have had about 15 times!

[Gerd W.]

Curios eBay FJ helmet

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[Edward]

Hello Eric,

Thanks for sharing the scans of a very impressive doc group indeed. On the scale of field made doc groups it is definitly a 10 plus. It must certainly be one of the rarest of late war Fj doc groups.

Hello All,

Not trying to start any argument regarding the duplication of photos, but the point regarding multiple copies made during the war is a valid one as both Eric and Frank H pointed out. From looking over several photos what struck me was something that I have seen before in photo duplication. That is, before scanners, where the picture is copied not from the negative, but from the actual photo itself. That is taking a camera and taking a picture of a picture. This leads to the clarity of the copied photo to apppear somewhat blurred. I am not questioning that any of the pictures are post war copies, nor saying that this is the case here with any certainty.

Regards

[Luftm40]

The issue about promotions correlating to awards isn't valid. I own a Heer grouping that came from the recipient. He fought thru the entire war....France, Poland, Russia... was awarded everything to include the DKiG, gold wound badge and CCC but never made it past Obergefreiter.....

[Philippe DB]

Very impressive to say the least, thanks for sharing this with all of us Eric.


KR
Philippe