Need some help on this APB

[Ardennes]

Greetings. I have lurked here a while, and hit a point where I really needed help that was over my head.

A friend of mine that comes up with some interesting vet finds presented this to me, offered it for purchase. I myself have enough trouble id'ing Luftwaffe FJ badges, before considering these. I apologize for having to post a "is this real" post, but I am really up a creek here.

Any help would be appreciated, feel free to email me as well.

Thank you,

Mike

No mark, Al construction.

[Rich G]

Mike

To start with you could read this article on this badge. It was written by 2 members of this association who have studied this badge in detail, based on examples from the original recipients.

Here's the URL

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_...arachutist.htm

Using this article should provide you with all the answers you need. I personally know very little about this badge but I would consult the article should I ever be presented with the opportunity to purchase one. As you probably know this badge is extremely rare and highly faked.

Good luck in your quest

Rich

[Ardennes]

I agree, but....

Thank you Rich. That article was the first place I went to after receiving a call on this item. I had read it previously, but hadn't a need at the time for the true detail presented in it.

I thought the article was great, but to tell you the truth, it scared me even more! That is why I went ahead and posted the pics.

I tried to use the tips and knowledge gleamed here and at Greg Way's site, but kept getting more and more confused I guess the rarity and value of the badge just places more skepticism on my shoulders.

thanks!

[mmiller]

Ardennes,

You don't want this badge, at least, I wouldn't.

Looking at the reverse:

1) The pin is too long, and comes to a point. It should be a blunt tip, and end just past the wreath.

2) The rivet heads are the wrong style. They also appear too large.

Looking at the obverse:

1) The image is not very sharp.....but still, the diving eagle lacks any kind of detailing in the head, the wings, the talons....everywhere. Look at the area between the diving eagle's eyebrow and the beak. The edge is rounded, not sharp as it should be.

2) The color of the gilting is 'off'.


The badge should weigh somewhere around 11 grams, as I recall. I might be slightly off.

You did the right thing by asking and by posting an image. Your skepticism is well placed. Hold off on this one. Eventually, the 'right one' will come along.

Regards,
Mark

[Philippe]

Hello Mike,

Here is a close-up of an original 1937 - 2nd type Army parachutists Badge in aluminium, unmarked but surely made by C.E. Juncker, so anyone can compare.



Click here to see a gallery and detailled pictures of Army Para badges..

Hope it helps,

Happy collecting!

Philippe
www.majorplm.com

[IVAN]

Sorry Ardennes but I don' t like this badge.

Following is mine.

As you can see there are a lot of wrong things.

Is right what Miller write.

Hope can help you.

Ivan

[Prosper Keating]

I regret to say that the badge offered to Ardennes by his friend looks as if it is one of a recent series of fakes but with a bit of artificial wear and tear to remove the gold finish from the wreath highlights. Close...but no banana.

No need to apologise for asking, Ardennes! That's what this forum is for. Anyway, I posted this in another thread but in case you missed it, here is a textbook, 2nd pattern aluminium Army Para Badge by C E Juncker, which is what the badge in your images is pretending to be.



Ivan's excellent example is the equally rare 1943 pattern APB, struck in zinc (feinzink) by Juncker on the same dies as the prewar aluminium (and 800 silver) 2nd pattern APBs. If you are offered a 2nd pattern Army Para Badge and it is not identical to the two genuine ones posted here, in terms of its die characteristics and detailing - and I do mean identical - then it is not a Juncker-made badge. And as Juncker were the sole contractors for the Army Para Badge, it extremely unlikely that it made by anyone else before May 1945. Obviously you have to allow for minor differences in peripherial detail - around the edges of the wreath and between the wings and around the talons of the diving eagle - due to hand-finishing and filework but the surface details do not change.

Some dealers and vendors will try to tell you otherwise. But if this badge was as plentiful as the abundance of '100% genuine' Army Para Badges on the market suggests, then why did recipients at the time have such problems getting duplicates and wearing copies, both before and during the war? Why do most of the original aluminium APBs we see have one or more period repairs? Even after the reintroduction of the APB in June 1943, it remained hard to get stocks: the first course of SS-Fallschirmjäger to qualify as parachutists in the Fall of 1943 received the Army badge but afterwards, the majority were given the Luftwaffe badge. As we say in our article, it was a rare badge even at the time.

But if you are patient and you study the badges as much as you can, you will end up with a real one in your collection. They do crop up from time to time. Feel free to ask for advice. E-mail me if you like.

Prosper Keating

[Ardennes]

much appreciated

Thank you all for the assistance.