I just acquired this nice M37 with later war modification for M38 liner, I have been collecting helmets for 20+ years and this is my first FJ, couldnt resist this M37 and I was in the right place at the right time, never really see these come up for sale too often!....bought it off a reputable dealer with a nice return policy so Im hoping to get some opinions from the forums more knowledgeable FJ collectors!...the pics on the website werent that great but I pulled the trigger thinking it wouldnt last too long for sale!....its a little rough, probably poor storage after the war, doesnt quite look like it was ground dug just poorly stored in a basement or garage in my opinion, missing liner/chinstrap and two spanner bolts...has a hard to see lot # in back and maker on side is very hard to make out, maybe ET**......my camera flash makes it look a little more rough and rusty than in real life, will try to take more pics tomorrow in natural light, so if you guys could please help me out and determine if its the real deal I would appreciate it!...also if I need to take better detailed pics of certain areas please let me know, it looks good from my eyes but its my first FJ and Im way too exited about getting an M37, its something I thought I would never stumble on!....thank you for all opinions....mike
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Hi Mike,
Sorry to have to spoil some of your enthusiasim, but I will need to see some better photos, especially of the markings and the slots/ holes, as well as the inside rim.
An original M37 would be a double decal and would be in the pre-war 'apple green'. It shoudn't have a lot number since it was cut down from another helmet. It would have the standard M35 air vents on the sides. It would also weigh less than a M38 shell.
Honestly, it is very easy to take a relic M38 shell (assuming this one is actually an original shell) and cut slots and 3 holes in it. But, it is not easy to add the M35 vents to a M38 shell.Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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The same opinion that Willi… sorryComment
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Same opinion as Willi. However the way in which the rolled edge has been crimped inwards suggest that this helmet is not a M38 shell converted into a M37 one (wrong/fake M38 rolled edge) It looks a M35 transformation IMO.
Detailed pics of the slots and the presence of serial numbers could help to determine its originality.
Originally posted by Willi Zahn View PostComment
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Then it would still have the M35 side air vents. Or at least the holes. On some M36/ M37 helmets as they were converted to accept the M38 liner, the M38 bolts holes were placed very close to the rivets. In some cases you just see the hole next to the new M38 hole as the rivet was removed. A converted M35 would no longer retain its lot number after it was converted. That portion of the skirt where the lot number shoud be would have been removed.Originally posted by blau250 View Post
A bad rim roll job, which I agree this one may have, would indicate a fake M38 shell.Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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M37
I have to agree that this shell is probably not a REAL example of an M37. For one thing, I don't like the location of the slots. And as Willi says, it should be a double decal and have smooth parade paint, which it does not seem to have, even under the rough paint we see.
I don't agree with a couple of other observations however. The M37's I've seen (admittedly not a lot of them!) that were converted to M38 liners no longer have the vents. The side bolt holes were placed where the vent holes originally were located. Also, M37's were not cut down from M35's to my knowledge, and they do have batch numbers. Low batch numbers, to be sure. As do the M36's I believe.
Cheers,
TerryComment
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Thanks for your opinions guys, now as I understand it after reading info in many books and threads on the M37, I thought the M36 with four slots was a converted M35, then the early M37s with two slots were maybe also converted M35s then later M37s with two slots were specially made helmets at the factory not converted M35s?...also I understand if this was a cut down M35 the makers marks would most likely be gone as they would have been down low on the skirt that was removed, but a factory produced helmet would have these marks?....would a factory converted M37 have had the makers marks reapplied?...on the few surviving M37s, do they have any markings? The rolled rim on my helmet looks pretty well done compared to my other M35s rims wich Ive seen some imperfections on the rolls on undoubtedly original helmets, what are the red flags to look for on the "faked" para rims?....also examining the slots they look like they have been there forever with no sign of work being done there or on the surrounding metal, they appear to be the correct size compared to pics Ive seen, also the slot seems to cut right into the rim at one point which I think would be very hard to fake without heavy stamping machinery ....I am playing the devils advocate on the positive sides for this helmet here because I really want this to be real!!...also I have a good return policy at the dealer where this came from but I really want to be sure before I send it back and potentially let a M37 slip away!!....also what would a M38 shell in this condition go for?...and what would you expect to pay for a M37 like this?...thanks for bearing with me on all these questions!...I will try to take some more detailed shots of the slots and rim too......mikeComment
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I agree with some of Terry's comments. Most M36 and M37 helmets coverted to accept the M38 do have the M38 bolt holes exactly where the M35 vent was. But, not all. Mine has the hole right next to it. I have not seen any (of the very small sample which exist) M36s with lot numbers.
I will have to check my photo files on M37 lot numbers, but I know Terry has a few example to study.
Terry, it has been a while since I have handled that uncoverted M37. Are they ligher than a M38? The M36 helmets are certainly lighter.
Since M37 helmets have been so closely faked, I know we are all cautious about providing too many intimate details. We know they screw up on the rim, as well as any markings.Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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