Prelude to Monte Cassino

[Marco]

6

[Marco]

Last shot of this special edition of "Prelude to Montecassino"...in memory of hundreds of people of my country deads in the bombardment.
Marco

[George Cone]

Marco,
Your pictures leave me speachless! You really need to do a book!

In 1984 I was with my father and members of the 36th Div. on a battle field tour. When we were at the base of Monte Cassino, the tour guide stated that there were no Germans in the Montestery itself. Vets of the 36 muttered BS under their breath. I told my father that I had read both German and Italian accounts that confirmed that fact. It made my father very upset that I said that. My dad insisted that Germans had to be inside as their fire was so accurate at anything that moved below. He said that they could not get out of their holes during the day time, lest they be fired on....
Those 36th vets went to their graves believing that the Germans occupied the Abbey.

I also remember staning beside the bus and drinking a coke with my dad. He thru the empty can on the ground. I told him that was not nice as he did not litter in America. He just looked at me. Later my mom told me I was "out of line." Now as an older guy, I can just imagine how that must have upset my father. His friends bled all over that gound with their life blood. I guess he felt they had left enough of themselves there that he could justify chunking a can on the ground. Oh, how I wish I could take back those words now. The ignorance of youth....

And yes, that picture on my avitar, is my father before being shipped to Africa with the 36th div.

[Larry F.]

Many, many thanks Marco for this moving thread. It's hard to imagine what the bombardment must have been like, let alone anyone actually surviving it.

Thanks for a great thread!

Someday I hope to visit Italia again. A beautiful country so rich in history.

Best,

Larry

[John Hodgin]

A little after 9:30 on Feb. 15th, (a Tuesday) 1944 the bombing began. The first wave of bombers were B17s of the 13thAAF from Foggia which dropped hundreds of tons of bombs on the Monastery.

That afternoon B25s and B26s from the Mediterranean AAF dropped another hundred tons of bombs on the Monastery. The bombing made newspapers around the world.

Who, excluding Marco, can tell us how many German paratroopers were killed in the bombing? How many German soldiers from the Heer were killed?

More wonderful work Marco!

John

[George Cone]

I would assume that very few Germans were killed in the bombing because there was suppose to be a 300 meter perimiter beneather the Abbey where they could not cross. I guess that only stray bombs killed any German military personnel.
Do tell?

[John Hodgin]

I would assume that very few Germans were killed in the bombing because there was suppose to be a 300 meter perimiter beneather the Abbey where they could not cross. I guess that only stray bombs killed any German military personnel.
Do tell?

Will today, but wait for other opinions for a while.

[John Hodgin]

How many German paratroopers were killed in the bombing? How many German soldiers from the Heer were killed?

No one knows?

[John Hodgin]

On the night following the destruction of the Monastery paras from the 1st Fj Division occupied the ruins of the Monastery and also reinforced Monastery Hill. The following day, on Feb. 16th, there was further Allied aircraft and artillery bombardment of the Monastery. During and after the bombing Gurkhas from the 4th Indian Division were on Snakes Head Ridge and other nearby positions. On midnight of the 17th/18th they bravely attacked the Monastery and surrounding positions from the same line of attack as the US 34th Division had done two weeks prior.

[Homer Hodge]

For the past several days, I have been going through my copies of the best academic works in English on the battles of Cassino, including books by John Ellis, Carlo D'Este, Martin Blumenson, and numerous others, looking for casualty figures from the bombing of the Abbey. The best I've come up with is 250-300 civilians killed but no abbots killed. The only figure I've found for German FJ is 160 that were killed, not in or near the abbey, but apparently in the town of Cassino. It is amazing to me that these volumes relate in incredible detail the debate among senior Allied officers over whether to bomb the abbey or not, the decision, the number and types of aircraft and the bombs used, altitudes, weather - everything you ever wanted to know except casualties figures. Now my curiosity has grown and I hope someone can produce some information. Perhaps, from German or Italian sources....

[John Hodgin]

Excellent!

For the past several days, I have been going through my copies of the best academic works in English on the battles of Cassino, including books by John Ellis, Carlo D'Este, Martin Blumenson, and numerous others, looking for casualty figures from the bombing of the Abbey. The best I've come up with is 250-300 civilians killed but no abbots killed. The only figure I've found for German FJ is 160 that were killed, not in or near the abbey, but apparently in the town of Cassino. It is amazing to me that these volumes relate in incredible detail the debate among senior Allied officers over whether to bomb the abbey or not, the decision, the number and types of aircraft and the bombs used, altitudes, weather - everything you ever wanted to know except casualties figures. Now my curiosity has grown and I hope someone can produce some information. Perhaps, from German or Italian sources....

Excellent, solid, accurate research Homer!

The facts you relate are correct. And there is a reason you cannot find any German military casualties from the bombing of the Monastery! THERE WERE NONE! ZERO!

There were no Germans in the Monastery, thus there were no casualities.
Not a single German soldier was injured or killed during the entire bombing of the Monastery. A significant fact IMHO.
John

[Homer Hodge]

Actually I should add that John Ellis in his book, Cassino: Hollow Victory, did make the point that there were no Germans killed in the abbey because there were none in the abbey. However, as George points out, there are still those Allied veterans who believe that the Germans were using the abbey for observation prior to the bombing.

[Homer Hodge]

And, as I think someone (Marco?) already pointed out, General der Panzertruppen Frido von Senger und Etterlin, commander, IV Panzer Korps, was in fact a lay member of the Benedictine order of the Catholic Church and, as commander of the troops defending Cassino, had ordered that no German troops would be in the abbey or use it for any military purpose.

[John Hodgin]

von Senger was the genius of the German leaders at Cassino. He had deep respect for the Monastery and it's monks.

General Juin gets my vote for the best Allied leader at Cassino.

"However, as George points out, there are still those Allied veterans who believe that the Germans were using the abbey for observation prior to the bombing."

The Monastery had a huge negative psychosocial effect upon all the Allied troops fighting at Cassino. Although the Allies could not know for certain that no Germans were observing them from the Abbey, there are numerous accounts of Allied soldiers expressing how the "Abbey" seemed to be ever watching them, looming over any movement, a menace, a threat to their survival.

Though there was no proof Germans occupied the Monastery, the Allied leaders decided to bomb it in part to relieve this negative psychosocial effect on the troops.

[Homer Hodge]

John, I definitely agree with your choices. Juin was a superb tactical commander. I would also add that in Italy the Germans overall had better leaders than the Allies, from Kesselring all the way down.