Subdued Luftwaffe eagle

[Perry Floyd]

I've asked this question before but now the owner of the pacticular helmet has joined the forum, which is great as I really wanted the info on this helmet.
It's on page 70 of Robert Kurtz German Paratroops. Fallshirmjager helmet owned by Willi Zahn.
I've allways been very skeptical of these subdued helmet decals and hope the owner could give a ownership history or some type of background into this helmet. Most allways these helmets are seen in near mint condition or just unapplied decals. I've never seen any photo evidence even though that may be impossible to determine from a period photo. I think it's a very gray area to say the least but I'm allways willing to be proven wrong and have allways sought out factual information on these decals.

[Willi Z.]

Hi Perry,

This is an interesting topic and I welcome any thoughts to help verify or dispute the presence of these subdued decals. First alittle of my collecting philosophy; I am a very conservative collector (much to the annoyance of many dealers)who prefers the "norm" the "rule" the "standard" (it must be my Prussian born parents..LOL)over the "exception", a strange "variation", etc. In other words, I am very skeptical over something that pops up, and it takes alot to convince me that something strange is correct.

When I first saw a FJ helmet (mint) with a green decal about 5 years ago, I was highly doubtful that it was correct. Then 1 year later I saw a worn Luftwaffe M42 with a green decal, both exhibited realistic wear that complimented each other...about 85% condition. As I collect Luftwaffe helmet decals I then picked up a few of these decals in various shades still on the paper. The particular helmet you referred to(which I include a closeup photo of the decal) was picked up in Pa from a guy who got it at a veteran's estate sale. Now, I do know that many of these helmets have surfaced and are being sold by 2 dealers in particular (one in the US, the other in England). We will leave it at that. I do know that I have seen a few helmets where it is quite obvious that both the green decal, and some white ones too, have been added to helmets. It is very difficult to apply an original Luftwaffe decal properly........they leave out an important detail involving the varnish. The ones I have seen usually have cracks near the swastika...others also have cracks on the wings. You can note this when looking at them under 10 power magnification. What I liked about the one I have, is that I know the source and the fact that the decal and helmet have that scratch down to the metal with the proper age patina present. As I have never put on a decal, I am not sure that it would be possible to put on such a fragile decal (compared to SS and Heer decals) and then scratch it down to the metal without damaging the decal to the point where it looks suspicious. And why bother? Most who are prone to do things like this do not go to that risk level......once scratched you could not put another decal on it.

Even without this theory, it was the helmet with net attached that I found out in Chicago. When I first heard about this helmet with net original to the helmet, I was rather skeptical, having seen so many where the net was clearly added recently. This helmet walked into a small show out there...several years ago. When I saw the helmet it was rather obvious that the net has always been there. And, the helmet was not mint and it had a green subdued decal. It had good signs; the wear pattern with the most damage on top and along the rim, the way it was attached under the liner band on the inside, the way the "s" hooks were used to support the net on the front and back, the use of the draw string which is tied in at several points...in other words, it had the "right look". My determination was that if the decal was added, then the net was probably added afterwards. So, if the net looked original to the helmet, then the decal might be safe. Plus, the source of this helmet is in no way connected to the 2 sources which have been selling suspicious looking mint helmets with green and white decals which looked added. Attached is a photo of that helmet.

Another helmet is in a collection that is a camo late-war helmet with this saem green decal. I will soon get a look at the helmet to see if the camo has the "right look".

On the matter of the lack of photo documentation, I am not convinced that this is absolute in this matter. Subdued decals would not show up in a B&W photo. Late-war FJ helmets with slotted aluminum (or vented slotted for that matter) are seldom observed in photographs. And, late-war slotted aluminum helmets with white decals are even less frequently observed in photos. Realistically, these late-war helmets are just that....late-war. These helmets were worn in late '44 and early '45 during a period when many FJ divisions were raised...this was not a good time, and the amount of photographs taken (by both vets and press types) was at a much lower level than the pre-Normandy timeframe.

Would love to hear what others think. Though I know many Fallschrimjäger veterans with sharp memories, most of them were captured at various times before the end of '44...and none had even seen the late-war slotted aluminum bolts yet. So, I have not been able to get a veteran confirmation on the presence of green subdued decals.

Regards,

Willi

[Willi Z.]

I guess a conclusion to my opinion would be nice.........:-). I do agree that this a gray area. I do know for a fact that some decals are being added to helmets...both green ones and white ones. But, these do not look right to those that have alot of experience with helmet decals. And, I do believe that green subdued decals can be found (original to the helmet) on both FJ and Luft M42 helmets. I am anxious to see this helmet where the camo has been applied over much of the green decal. Though some can do a nice repro camo job, you can still tell.

WZ

[Perry Floyd]

Thanks Mr.Zahn for the info on this pacticular helmet although I have to admit I'm very skeptical of it. One major concern I have is why have these helmets starting showing up in the last ten years. Is there anyone that knows of a collector finding one in the 50's? Or any early collector evidence? Also finding a advanced collector that will back these decals are few and far between. Why only a subdued Luft. decal? Why not a Heer, Kriegs or SS? But this is just my opinion and I could be wrong....I would like to hear opinions from other collectors on this..

[Willi Z.]

Perry, I guess I underestimated the level of your skepticism. Not only do you doubt these decals are correct on helmets (which I certainly understand), you apparently also doubt that these decals even exsist as original. I have never encountered an advanced collector who, when presented with one of these subdued decals on it's original maker marked paper backing, doubted it's authenticity. I have encountered these decals for many years in about the ratio of about 1 subdued one for every 15-20 white decals. I could scan paper backed decals at a later time.

If you will only give the issue some thought when you hear from someone who bought one of these helmets, or decals for that matter, back in the 50's...well......I too anxiously await this evidence.

On the matter of why did the Luftwaffe create subdued eagles when the Heer, Kriegsmarine and SS didn't. That logic can't and doesn't go far. The Luftwaffe was in the process of subduing their "Hoheitsabzeichen" (national emblem) at the end of the war, unlike any other branch. The last run of Fallschirmjäger smocks all had subdued green eagles on them. These smocks are made of that flimsy rayon-cotton blend and are all dated from 10-44 and later......and are always encountered in mint, unissued condition. Since none seem to be encountered in worn out condition, are they bad??? Below is a picture of one of the late green subdued smock eagles on a 12-44 dated smock. The scan process seemed to have lightened the eagle, but it looks much more green when seen in person. Evidence to many that the Luftwaffe was subduing their eagles. So, why not on helmets? Next is a picture of two late-war Luftwaffe green subdued (one has some dark gray in it) eagles on an HBT backing. Though not encountered on late-war jump smocks, you do find these on Luftwaffe late-war green HBT uniforms and late-war water pattern ground division smocks.




I do hope someone comes forward with some more information. What convinced me is the beatup Luft M42 helmet I saw, the presence of original decals on maker marked paper and the fact that the helmet with net came from a collector in the midwest who only grabs what falls in his lap and then only pays 10 cents on the dollar (LOL)...an unlikely candidate for buying it from one of the dealers who "enhances" helmets. On the issue of advanced collectors......well, some advanced FJ collectors have owned repro helmet covers for the last 20 years, or smocks made with zeltbahn.... collectors 10 years ago still believed that FJ jump trousers were made in blue-gray and that FJ helmets were also only blue-gray. Where I do admit that a consensus of advanced collectors is helpful, it is not absolute..some network harder than others.....some spend much more time and money developing their opinions than others......some keep up with new information and do not rest with knowledge from only the past.

WZ

[Perry Floyd]

Willi I respect your opinion on it, I do.
Maybe some of the experianced here will offer their take on it.
I just don't think there's enough evidence for me as of yet.
I would enjoy any solid info you ave on th subdued national shield as well..

[Steve in Florida]

Willi writes: collectors 10 years ago still believed that FJ jump trousers were made in blue-gray and that FJ helmets were also only blue-gray

I hope not. My only helmet (vet purchased single decal FJ helmet with plain slotted bolts) is dark green

[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Steve in Florida ]

[Frank Heukemes]

The SS also (heavily) subdued their cloth eagles and totenkops on late issue baschlik style field caps. There are some good pictures at germandaggers.com, I think in the Collector´s Showcase Forum.

Cheers, Frank

[Willi Z.]

Hi Frank,

Yes, I forgot about those reversible Waffen SS caps with the reversible camo insignia. probably the rarest item out there. But, not being a Waffen SS camo collector, I was under the impression that the Waffen SS was moving away from using insignia on camo garments. Will ask Mike Beaver when I see him on Sat.

Steve, should have said "some collectors". I still hear some mention blue-gray wartime helmets......and I don't mean some early pre-war M37s and M38s.

Willi