Fallschirmpioniere Waffenfarbe

[naxos]

Did the combat engineers of the paratroopers (Fallschirmpioniere) wear the black Waffenfarbe?

Hardy

[naxos]

Did a seach and found this thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=pionier

My father was a Fallschirm-Pionier first with the 2./Korps-Pionier-Batl.

note the collar tabs look very dark






after returning from Africa he was with Stabskompanie Fallschirm-Pionier Bataillon 2
the picture is of his CO, again the tabs look very dark


My father was wounded in Dec. 43 at Zhitomir, Russia and after recuperation transferred to 1./Fsch.Pz.Jg.Abt.1
note the lighter (yellow tabs and shoulder board edges)


here is another picture of a Fallschirmpionier with what appears to be black Waffenfarbe


Regards Hardy

[Edgar Alcidi]

..

Hi Hardy, thanks for sharing the great pictures with us. Yes, the paratroopers Pioniere (pioneers) did wear the black ( schwarz) waffenfarbe as the luftwaffe in general. The engineers did wear a the pink waffenfarbe. I hope it helps.
Regards,
Edgar

[Ian Jewison]

Here's another thread where it was discussed:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=90697

/Ian

[oli4vercammen]

I thought that the FJ pioniere wore yellow waffenfarbe and had a small black string around their shoulderboards(far end of the shoulder), to let other FJ know they where pioniere. I thought the only branch within the FJ that wore anothe waffenfarbe where the Sanitätstruppen, wich wore darkblue waffenfarbe.

[Willi Z.]

This matter is always interesting and I am glad we have some more photos and additonal discussion.

I think we can go back and forth with golden yellow or black on this. I think it will be tough to come up with any absolutes.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the unit source of the soldier who then became a FJ.

Great photos and document Hardy!

[Uncle Kurt]

Hallo,
The Fallschirmpioniere trugen NUR die gelben Spiegel des Fliegendem Personals der Luftwaffe.
Auser das Fallschirmpionier Btl. 5 in der Normandie und in den Ardennen trugen über ihren gelben Schulterklappen und Stücken eine schwarze Kordell.
Bitte kann das einer ins englisch übersetzten? DANKE

[Uncle Kurt]

Das Problem der unterschiedlichen farben der Kragenspiegel liegt an der Belichtung beim Fotografen oder in der Natur.
Man konnte Bilder noch nicht so ausleuchten wie man es Heute kann.

Das hat mir einmal ein alter Fotograf erklärt (Fallschirm-PK Mann)

[naxos]

Uncle Kurt is saying that all Fallschirmpioniere wore the yellow Kragenspiegel (collar tabs) with the exception of the Fallschirmpionier Btl. 5 in Normandy and the Ardennes (they wore black piping around their yellow tabs).
He thinks that the tabs appearing that way is due to the color spectrum change in outdoor photographic images at that time.

Uncle Kurt has a good point - I am aware of yellow changing and appearing darker in black and white pictures but I am not convinced that it would change to complete black:
Have a look at these images from my father (second from the left) even the piping around the shoulder boards seems black

[naxos]

For comparison: Another picture from my father, this time featuring regular paratroopers (not Pioniere) the picture is taken outside a hangar at Wittstock Fallschirmschule.
One can clearly see the different shade of the collar tabs and shoulder board piping:





Hardy

[Gene]

Look again at the photo I provided in this link : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=pionier

The piping for his collar, shoulder boards and visor are dark (I believe black) as are his collar tabs. For contrast, look at the eagle on his para badge. We know this was done in yellow yet it appears to be almost the same shade as the rest of his Fliegerbluse. Look at the borders of his para badge and breast eagle. Somewhat darker than the Fliegerbluse too but not as dark as his piping and tabs.

[PaulR]

I think that the collar tabs and shoulder strap piping in question is a very dark color. My guess is that they are black.

V.r
Paul

[John Hodgin]

This is in fact a yellow collar tab. Have disscussed this issue before.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=ortho+film

[Willi Z.]

I agree John.

The problem with our analysis is that we (most of us) are basing this issue on photos which some think are of black collar tabs.

FJ veteran accounts just don't support the wear of black collar tabs by Fallschirm Pioniere. Perhaps it was the exception during the later war years.

I know a veteran with an extremely sharp memory for the smallest details and who was a member of 3./ Fallsch. Pi. Batl. 4. He entered the service as a member of 14. Fallsch. Pi. Ersatz Batl. 1 and attended the Pionier Lehrgang at Tangermünde/ Elbe, along with jump school at Wittstcok. He has stated a number of times that he never saw a Fallschirm Pionier wearing black tabs.

I am sure things were possible, but IMO it was not the norm.

[naxos]

If I can find pictures of my father were it shows clearly that he is wearing the same tunic with the same tabs appearing black in one and much lighter in the other picture that would settle it.

There are still dozens of pictures I haven’t scanned in yet -

Hardy