FJ camo helmet on ebay

[Willi Z.]

Hey John, not saying I like the liner........it is just not the normal Czech repro based on the photos. If the paint, shell and straps are bad......and the pads turn out to be bad...then the liner is a moot point. The key here is that the photos are just good enough to get one into trouble. Just thought a healthy discussion was a better way to inform than just saying "it is not good". Clearly a helmet to avoid. Many who visit this forum would like for us to post why we don't like something.

Willi

[John Hodgin]

Hey Willi, huh? I agree this is worthwhile. That's why I commented on the even printing of the stamps....

[Willi Z.]

Hey John H., my liner comment on the post above was in response to John B. Got my Johns mixed up...... .

Willi

[sshort]

Guys, I have never understood how a liner can keep the light tan color with the crisp ink stamp after sweat and oil from the head has made contact with the leather. Factor in 60 years of aging and you get some discoloration. The combat zone look of the exterior of the shell and the mint liner just do not match in my opinion. I would have to pass on this one. S. Short

[Willi Z.]

Hi Steve,

None of us like the helmet. We are just trying to figure out the liner. That liner is not nearly a mint one..... plenty of untouched FJ helmets that have wear, have liners that look that clean. Mint liners, even after 60 yrs, are very light in color.

Here is the liner on an untouched chicken wire camo that has seen use......the liner is still pretty clean and light in color.

Willi

[Eric Queen]

It seems to be for sale again........

From this shot of the interior, I am not convinced that any of it is right.

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...item=751617196

[Willi Z.]

Yes, I saw that too last night. From these photos however, the Czech reproduction liner, pads and chinstraps are clear. Looks like the reserve was met at $2500. About 8 yrs ago I saw a killer splinter type camo FJ helmet sell for $3000......have been trying to get it since. This helmet appears to have copied the same camo..........wouldn't it be the find of a lifetime to find a camo this clean??

Willi

[Skullhead]

Ebay seller

The seller "ideesinc" is a guy from Texas that sells stuff for a German dealer named Carsten Stagemier... 3/4 of his helmets offered are bogus and he ripped me off for more than $700!! STAY CLEAR OF IDEESINC! ...All proof can of coarse be shown, if you do choose to buy from him though, better hope customs doesn't snatch your helmet and you're out your money! Happy New Year!

[Skip Pickett]

Hmmm...

I don't think many guys here are in danger of buying that one!

Skip

[Sirius9024]

Whats wrong with the liner?

I'm sure you guys have talked about htese liners over and over again, but I'm hoping that you'll be able to run through it really quick again. What makes the liner different from an original? I understand the footed one. I'm looking for info on the leather, the pads and the chinstrap.
Happy Holidays,
Sirius

[Peter_Suciu]

Having learned the lesson

I had an "alleged" Czech repro -- the seller still maintains that it is real and has reposted the helmet several times -- and when compared to the real deal it is very easy to see notable differences.

In my opinion, and Willi can tell way more than me:

*The liners tend to look articifically aged. The leather doesn't look exactly old as much as it looks "stressed," like it was dosed in water over and over to dry it out a bit.
*The rubber seems a dead giveaway. Rubber that is 60 years old should be somewhat hardened, yet these Czech helmets have plenty of spring in the rubber. After looking at dozens of pictures I have noticed that these Czech helmets sometimes even have rubber pads that look too dark -- a possible sign that the rubber is too new.
*The straps tend to be another dead giveaway. The colors are often too bright on the backside and lack the natural folds and creases that you'd expect an item that sat on a shelf for 60 years to develop.

Those are just my somewhat limited opinions.

[Willi Z.]

Peter is a "quick learner" on original versus Czech repro FJ helmets. Once you study one of these Czech repros Sirius, you will notice the common features.......then you study original ones and you can decide just by observing these common features. I wish is was as easy as putting it into words, but it just isn't that simple. The mistake on the "foot" of the "1" has already been corrected. They use a foam rubber (something that was not available in WWII) for the padding between the liner band and the liner. Since the liner, band and pads are all sewn together, once you observe the foam rubber, it is easy to dismiss the liner. Original pads were much harder and porus in appearance. They had a unique odor to them. Both the liner and straps are artificially aged....it never looks right. The liner never has natural wear........the straps are alwasy too stiff. Needless to say, these things are getting corrected. They already use a tan paintlike substance to harden the foam rubber and many are aging the leather in a more realistic manner.

The key is to study the real ones.......find their common features. Develop the critical eye to pick these features out and dismiss the bad ones. This way you don't have to always keep up with the improvements to the reproductions.

As I have told many, my first camo FJ helmet was a bad one...parts of the helmet were real....but, I knew who to listen to and learned from him. I sold the bad one in parts for only a $150 loss and moved on.

Willi

[Peter_Suciu]

My biggest concern since I see myself staying in this hobby for a long time, is that it might be even harder to spot the fakes in ten years. Not only will these fakes get better but as time passes things will start to age naturally. Obviously 15 years isn't going to look like 70+ years but in time it might start to blur.

Even today collectors get fooled by helmets that had fake decals put on the in 1960s. Most of those SS decals back then were easy to spot but imagine what will happen with these fake para lids if you just leave it in the garage for 10 years. We'll have to be on guard even more in the years to come.

I remember when I first started collecting helmets in 1983 all I worried about was that a helmet was repainted...today I have to worry if the helmet was even made before 1993! Oh well, that's why I'm sticking with dealers I trust going forward!

Thanks again to everyone for their helmet with my purchases in 2002...especially Willi.