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**Sal Williams** · 09-01-2005, 01:43 PM

Hi Eric,

You are not talking about cufftitles right? What is a sleeveband? Can you show a pic?

Best, Sal

**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 01:46 PM

I call them sleevebands. Like what the man is wearing below.

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**Yannis** · 09-01-2005, 01:54 PM

Eric

I think many of us share your love for Fj sleevebands. But
there seem to be a few variations.
If you keep this in mind in relation to the fact that they are heavily reproduced, are quite expensive and few of us have the knowledge to distinguish an original form a bad one -especially from photos- I think you may have the answer.

In a few words I think most collectors are "afraid" of them, I certainly am.
It is also just my perception of things but the more I see an item on a dealer's site not moving the more convinced I am that it is not good, otherwise why hasn't someone snatched it? This of course is based on my lack of knowledge about the item.
I am willing to bet though that after your post in the other thread this sleeveband will not be available in a few days.

Just MHO

**Bob Hritz** · 09-01-2005, 02:42 PM

Having collected cuff titles of the Heer and SS for years, I feel a total comfort with them. However, upon discovering that EVERY Luftwaffe para cuff title I owned was fake, I just completely gave up. Since I already paid for the fakes, I think it would be foolish to justify adding this cost to the cost of finding originals. Of course, when I bought the fakes, they were thought to be original by several collectors who I had the misfortune to heed. I only found out when I got a copy of Gordon Williamson's cuff title book and read the section of Luftwaffe para fakes.

It just goes to show that I should not have treaded into waters in which I could not swim. I must add that no one tied me up, took money from my pocket, and replaced it with the titles. I bought them, at shows, after looking at them and feeling they were original. I would not lower myself to going back, years later, and requesting a refund. I am responsible for MY behavior.

However, I have looked for years for a monogrammed FJ shoulder board (embroidered). I will just grit my teeth and pay the price, should one, or a pair come available. Would I walk through fire for an original tunic, with FJ cuff title? I don't know any more. I just couldn't look at it and wonder if and when I will discover it is a forgery, in total or in parts.

Bob Hritz

**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 02:48 PM

Some good points Yannis. So it looks like the existance of quality fakes is in the lead.

I wonder what everyones opinions of these bands would be? Would especially like to hear from Willi, John and Chris.

Thanks

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**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 02:53 PM

another

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**Lloyd I.** · 09-01-2005, 03:03 PM

Eric,

The very wide variation in construction and patterns is somewhat daunting. Couple that with the fact that they are heavily reproduced and sold for ridiculous money means that people will shy away. Dont discount cost or buying patterns. Why pay over 1K for a Cufftitle when that means a uniform in some cases, a nice helmet, multiple items of gear, etc.?? It is more impressive to see a uniform badged than to bring out a piece of insignia not attached to anything.

**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Lloyd I.

It is more impressive to see a uniform badged than to bring out a piece of insignia not attached to anything.

Lloyd, I appreciate and respect your opinion, and I think you are correct about how most collectors see it. I don't see it that way at all though. It would be FAR more impressive to me to see one piece of original, rare insignia from an elite unit, than a whole rig of common material. Its a matter of quantity or quality I guess.

EQ

**Lloyd I.** · 09-01-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Eric Queen

It would be FAR more impressive to me to see one piece of original, rare insignia from an elite unit, than a whole rig of common material. Its a matter of quantity or quality I guess.

EQ

Eric- You can still have an impressive rare tunic with impressive rare insignia and impressive rare badges. I am not talking about 5 common tunics with common insignia. A nice Fliegerbluse double cuffed with Kreta and Afrika titles and decently badged is nicer than a Heer M44 with an EKII ribbon and wound badge anyday.

I collect insignia myself since nicer tunics climbed out of my financial range. I enjoy each item for it's merit and place in history but in my mind it is always nice to see a complete display as it was meant to be worn, not peice meal. Your image of the FJ cuff in wear for example. I would rather have that whole get up than just a piece of it.

Just a difference of opinion. All the best

**Gerd W.** · 09-01-2005, 03:51 PM

Hello!

When you would ask me about the sleeves in question, I would have some doubts about (offered by a major German dealer btw).

First one looks like a hand embroidered em, didn´t saw an unquestionable original (I´m talking of hand embrod. only!) with such a stitching on the trim until today. I saw them only with a different style of thread there. I wouldn´t touch this sleeve band.

The second.........hard to tell only from such simple picture, but the regular handstiched NCO should have a special colored second piece of cloth (a sort of separate lining) inside the back; sorry I´m not able to see it on that picture.

**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Lloyd I.

Eric- You can still have an impressive rare tunic with impressive rare insignia and impressive rare badges. I am not talking about 5 common tunics with common insignia. A nice Fliegerbluse double cuffed with Kreta and Afrika titles and decently badged is nicer than a Heer M44 with an EKII ribbon and wound badge anyday.

I collect insignia myself since nicer tunics climbed out of my financial range. I enjoy each item for it's merit and place in history but in my mind it is always nice to see a complete display as it was meant to be worn, not peice meal. Your image of the FJ cuff in wear for example. I would rather have that whole get up than just a piece of it.

Just a difference of opinion. All the best

Lloyd,

I won't beat this horse any more, but the question wasn't "Which would you rather have, an original FIK Waffenrock with the badge and sleeveband original to the tunic, or just the sleeveband?" The question was "would you rather have an original FJ band, or a whole set up whose entire parts equal the cost of the one band" Yes, it is possible to have an impressive rare tunic, with impressive rare insignia and badges......but not for the price of one FJ band.

**Eric Queen** · 09-01-2005, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Niedersachsen

Hello!

When you would ask me about the sleeves in question, I would have some doubts about (offered by a major German dealer btw).

First one looks like a hand embroidered em, didn´t saw an unquestionable original (I´m talking of hand embrod. only!) with such a stitching on the trim until today. I saw them only with a different style of thread there. I wouldn´t touch this sleeve band.

The second.........hard to tell only from such simple picture, but the regular handstiched NCO should have a special colored second piece of cloth (a sort of lining) inside the back; sorry I´m not able to see it on that picture.

Gerd,

Thanks for your thoughts.

More opinions?

And please let's not discuss who owns them. That doesn't matter. They are either good or bad.

**spectre** · 09-01-2005, 04:25 PM

I think they have the double whammy of cost and fakes.

While I could come up with the money who is going to risk that much without being 100% sure? I really do like them, especially being a former paratrooper. I do have one enlisted FD cuff title I got 25 years ago and I would not mind finding a nice NCO regiment title but again, I would have to post it here to sleep at night.

Is it worth the hassle?

I have a nice collection of LW FJ badges, they are a lot easier to handle since you can match them up to pictures of textbook examples and rest easier if you have a good eye for detail.

Alan

Still looking for a nice Army badge though!

Talking about a whole other minefield.

**John Hodgin** · 09-01-2005, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Eric Queen

I wonder what everyones opinions of these bands would be? Would especially like to hear from Willi, John and Chris.
Thanks

I like, er rather LOVE, those Eric. Are you now going to tell me that they are the latest high end repros.? If so, there indeed is little hope for beginners.

Bands are alive and well with me, in fact my NCO Rgt. 1 is a part of our banner, that's alive in my book

Cost: Once they broke 1500 many people lost interest	37.67%	139 votes
Fakes: Reproductions are too good. Most cannot tell good from bad.	49.32%	182 votes
Look: Just do not find them appealing	3.79%	14 votes
Information: Not enough information available as to when/why they were worn, etc.	2.17%	8 votes
Not a combat related award	4.34%	16 votes
Photographic evidence: Rarely ever see photographs of the bands in wear.	2.71%	10 votes

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