Something to discuss

[Gene]

Gerd,

I think the pants are completely wartime, and as previously suggested I too feel they may be converted assault gunner pants.

Gene

[Les]

The story of George Washington's hatchet

Gerd, I think the pants are completely wartime, and as previously suggested I too feel they may be converted assault gunner pants. Gene

There's a story among antique dealers about George Washington's hatchet that he used to cut down the cherry tree, and that it was being offered for sale. The dealer that had it said the handle had been replaced three times, and the head of the hatchet twice, but it was still Washington's hatchet.

My primary area of interest is WWI Imperial items, and I have a large collection of wartime uniforms, field equipment, aviation items, etc. My WWII collecting is limited to Fj, as an area to keep me from getting burned out on WWI items. I have a small collection of items, and the principles of building a collection in one area of German militaria, is serving me well in developing my collecting into other areas of German militaria (Fj items). Over several decades I've handled numerous WWI and WWII German uniforms, and many that have been modified or repaired.

The trousers are very likely wartime trousers, but they've been modified to the point that their original purpose and function has been changed, but the obvious addition of new materials that don't match the rest of the trousers, unusual button/snaps, etc. Were the modifications made with the intent of changing the function of the trousers, or with the intent of changing their pattern and value?

The trousers were not likely to have been made this way at the factory, and whatever alterations took place, occurred -after- they left the factory. That raises the question, when did the alterations take place? Normally when uniform items were sent to a depot for repairs or alterations, there would be ink stampings added to indicate the item was altered. Unofficial or field repairs (such as tears and patches) could be done in the field, or by anyone with a sewing machine. Adding pocket flaps with snaps requires a little more in the line of special tools that would not be available to the average soldier in the field, a local woman with a sewing machine, etc.

The fact that these trousers were not originally made this way at the factory, and in particular, considering the price of Fj related items, unless the alteration can be shown to have occurred only during the war (prior to 1945), I'd be hesitant to accept them as "original." Otherwise, the story of Washington's hatchett begins to sound like a plausible explanation for every "variation" of military related items being offered for sale.

Briefly, there's the matter of "function." Did a Fallschirmjaeger really need a pair of Springerhosen for field use if he was only serving in ground combat roles, and not jumping? Ground combat and heavy field use can reduce the life expectancy of the trousers (cloth can get shredded fast) to a few weeks or months, not years...and sometimes even less for the person wearing them. An Fj in need of trousers could have used a pair of standard Sturmgeschutz trousers without having the leg pockets added if he -really- needed a pair of trousers. If you look at period photos, Fjs are often seen wearing uniform items they weren't issued, in some cases captured ("tropical" clothing on Crete, and North Africa), or even standard WH items, as issued.

My gut instinct is to give these a thumbs-down. The alterations could have been made anytime since 1945, using period materials. Whether these were altered for use in a movie production (ever see what happens to movie house uniforms?), or by someone hoping to sell George Washington's hatchet that has a replaced head and handle, is an expensive leap of faith.

Les

[John Hodgin]

Very well said Les. I have friends that love the unusual, altered, and odd pieces, and this is fine. I do not however, I collect uniforms and in that word lies the key for me. Uniform: consistent in design and production. I prefer standard issue over the unusual any day.

[FJR6]

Hello,
what if the dealer sold them as original WW2 FJ trousers and now we find out that they are what they are - Washington's hatchet?

best regards,
Volker

[Gerd W.]

Hello,
what if the dealer sold them as original WW2 FJ trousers and now we find out that they are what they are - Washington's hatchet?

best regards,
Volker

Sure a honest dealer will give a refund in that case .........but that´ll not happen here (not yet)! I know exactly the dealers answer!!

[Unteroffizier]

Maybe they're FJ sturmgeschutze pants?

[FJR6]

Hello,
so if a vendor sold these pants as FJ jump trousers (which they are not) he won't give a full refund? What kind of honesty is that supposed to be?

best regards,
Volker