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**mufasa** · 01-09-2019, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Luft 76 View Post

Woh !! Incredible... His Panzer ?

Look also at the sinister traces under he Pz Kommandant's turret...

I'm really getting into the research on this wehrpass.
I still lack confirmations on this StuG (also because the numbering of 242 seems in two numbers and not three, but for date and for the place is unequivocally one of the tanks of 242 hit the same day where he is mortally wounded the commander Kohbruk. Mr. Münch, author of many books on German panzer and stuG, is sending me an interesting report of veterans on the context in which our lieutenant fell and I think we will have other interesting news about this beautiful StuG officer.

ciao Oriano

**Luft 76** · 01-09-2019, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by mufasa View Post

i'm really getting into the research on this wehrpass.
I still lack confirmations on this stug (also because the numbering of 242 seems in two numbers and not three, but for date and for the place is unequivocally one of the tanks of 242 hit the same day where he is mortally wounded the commander kohbruk. Mr. Münch, author of many books on german panzer and stug, is sending me an interesting report of veterans on the context in which our lieutenant fell and i think we will have other interesting news about this beautiful stug officer.

Ciao oriano

Ok

**Lutfen** · 01-09-2019, 03:56 PM

Excellent work Oriano! As ever, I am amazed by the care and attention you put into your research and presentation.

Regards,
Michael

**PanzerElite** · 01-09-2019, 09:41 PM

thanks for your comprehensive researching again, it is very good to start with the famous fotos Sturm Guns in battle published in many books, which is easy to make me back to that history.

Could you briefly introduce the history of that time (Jan.5-9 1944) the StuG.Abt.242 and FJR1 in relations in fighting?

**TWS** · 01-09-2019, 11:19 PM

Oriano, fantastic job with both the research and the presentation of the information.

First class all the way.

**mufasa** · 01-10-2019, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by PanzerElite View Post

thanks for your comprehensive researching again, it is very good to start with the famous fotos Sturm Guns in battle published in many books, which is easy to make me back to that history.

Could you briefly introduce the history of that time (Jan.5-9 1944) the StuG.Abt.242 and FJR1 in relations in fighting?

You can find a summary of the assault to Monte Porcia in the post 14.
Here you can find other news about the final phase of the Winter Line battle

https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/...nter-drive.htm

(In this period ,at the beginning of January 1944 the German Paratroopers of the 1FJD were still on the Adriatic coast after fighting in Abruzzo (Ortona)

ciao Oriano

**mufasa** · 01-10-2019, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by TWS View Post

Oriano, fantastic job with both the research and the presentation of the information.

First class all the way.

many thanks for the nice words!
Ciao Oriano

**mufasa** · 01-10-2019, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Lutfen View Post

Excellent work Oriano! As ever, I am amazed by the care and attention you put into your research and presentation.

Regards,
Michael

Many, many thanks Luften! ciao Oriano

**Archi** · 01-10-2019, 01:42 PM

Hello Oriano !

Another very nice WP, with interesting units/officer career. Connected to the birth of the early StuG units.
And also another great presentation, with superb photos and fascinating research. Many thanks

!

Some remarks (especially on his early career) and some questions :
- His course to become an officer (p. 12, top) :
"Waffenschule der Artillerie", 2. Offiziers-Anwärter Lehrgang
was a temporary redesignation of the "Lehrstab A", both part of the Artillerieschule Jüterbog.

- The 8. Bttr./AR 20, with which he served in France, was equipped with le FH 10,5cm,
matching his training entry.

- After his wounding, he first returned to le. Art.Ers.Abt. 20. In Nov. 1940, he became "kommandiert"
(commanded/ temporarily detached) to the VI./Artillerie-Lehr-Regiment, where he took part in a
course for "Sturmartillerie" and also was trained with 7,5cm Kwk. This VI. Abt. was formed in May 1940.

=> This VI. Abteilung can be considered as the "cradle"/training center for many of the early StuG-Abteilungen !
(note the Lehr-u. Ersatz designation in the October 1940 scan, the "Ersatz" part is very unusual for a school unit !)

- Until 1943, all soldiers of the "Sturmartillerie" were volunteers. Therefore, although it says "kommandiert",
Lt. Kohbrok must have chosen this branch by himself. I think, another interesting sidenote.

- Perhaps also interesting : As this type of weapon was so new, its tasks were not totally clear in 1940.
It was considered useful as infantry support weapon against the enemies heavy infantry and AT-weapons, but
also considered as a possibly useful addition to the divisional artillery (with cross-country capabilities).
Therefore the crews were also trained to use indirect shots. (2nd scan)

Lt. Kohbrok must have done well, as in April 1941 his detachment to VI./A.L.R became permanent (versetzt).
In mid 1941, the Art.Lehr-Rgt. was split into two parts and the old VI. became III./Art.Lehr-Rgt. 2.
Essentially, from late Nov. 1940 to March 1943, he stayed with the very same Abteilung, within which in 1942
he was appointed Chef der Stabs-Batterie and later Abt.-Adjutant (new organization w/ Stabs-Batterie in 3rd scan).

-------------

Regarding the 242 in Italy :
I found the history of this unit very interesting, that is outlined very well by Pietro in the link above

!

In a book (Jammerbock III, by Henrik Schulze) on the Jüterbog training ground, where StuG-Abt. 242 was formed first,
there is some info on Oberleutnant Fritz Werner Pohl, who followed Oblt. Kohbrok as Batterie-Chef.
It also has a photo connected to the 242, showing the use of captured US tanks as Bergefahrzeuge, which I thought
could be interesting to add.

Two questions :
1.) on p. 22, behind his promotion to : "Lt. der Reserve", there is a (1943) in brackets. Anyone an idea what that means ?!

2.) Did I understand correct that Oblt. Kohbrok was Batteriechef from 1.4.1943 onward (until his death) ?

Best regards,

Archi

Attached Files

**mufasa** · 01-10-2019, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Archi View Post

Hello Oriano !

Another very nice WP, with interesting units/officer career. Connected to the birth of the early StuG units.
And also another great presentation, with superb photos and fascinating research. Many thanks

!

Some remarks (especially on his early career) and some questions :
- His course to become an officer (p. 12, top) :
"Waffenschule der Artillerie", 2. Offiziers-Anwärter Lehrgang
was a temporary redesignation of the "Lehrstab A", both part of the Artillerieschule Jüterbog.

- The 8. Bttr./AR 20, with which he served in France, was equipped with le FH 10,5cm,
matching his training entry.

- After his wounding, he first returned to le. Art.Ers.Abt. 20. In Nov. 1940, he became "kommandiert"
(commanded/ temporarily detached) to the VI./Artillerie-Lehr-Regiment, where he took part in a
course for "Sturmartillerie" and also was trained with 7,5cm Kwk. This VI. Abt. was formed in May 1940.

=> This VI. Abteilung can be considered as the "cradle"/training center for many of the early StuG-Abteilungen !
(note the Lehr-u. Ersatz designation in the October 1940 scan, the "Ersatz" part is very unusual for a school unit !)

- Until 1943, all soldiers of the "Sturmartillerie" were volunteers. Therefore, although it says "kommandiert",
Lt. Kohbrok must have chosen this branch by himself. I think, another interesting sidenote.

- Perhaps also interesting : As this type of weapon was so new, its tasks were not totally clear in 1940.
It was considered useful as infantry support weapon against the enemies heavy infantry and AT-weapons, but
also considered as a possibly useful addition to the divisional artillery (with cross-country capabilities).
Therefore the crews were also trained to use indirect shots. (2nd scan)

Lt. Kohbrok must have done well, as in April 1941 his detachment to VI./A.L.R became permanent (versetzt).
In mid 1941, the Art.Lehr-Rgt. was split into two parts and the old VI. became III./Art.Lehr-Rgt. 2.
Essentially, from late Nov. 1940 to March 1943, he stayed with the very same Abteilung, within which in 1942
he was appointed Chef der Stabs-Batterie and later Abt.-Adjutant (new organization w/ Stabs-Batterie in 3rd scan).

-------------

Regarding the 242 in Italy :
I found the history of this unit very interesting, that is outlined very well by Pietro in the link above

!

In a book (Jammerbock III, by Henrik Schulze) on the Jüterbog training ground, where StuG-Abt. 242 was formed first,
there is some info on Oberleutnant Fritz Werner Pohl, who followed Oblt. Kohbrok as Batterie-Chef.
It also has a photo connected to the 242, showing the use of captured US tanks as Bergefahrzeuge, which I thought
could be interesting to add.

Two questions :
1.) on p. 22, behind his promotion to : "Lt. der Reserve", there is a (1943) in brackets. Anyone an idea what that means ?!

2.) Did I understand correct that Oblt. Kohbrok was Batteriechef from 1.4.1943 onward (until his death) ?

Best regards,

Archi

As usual, additions detailed and very interesting Archi, in particular those on his "Sturmartillerie" training to the VI./Artillerie-Lehr-Regiment, and even more interesting the notice to the strictly voluntary recruitment of these "artillerymen"

I know the photo of "Sherman- Armored Recovery Vehicle" of the 242: very nice!!! Intentionally I posted (except those in the introduction) only photos of StuG of the Sturm.Gesch. Abt.242 in the context of the death of Lieutenant Kohbruk, (I add another always dated January 9, 1944 and also taken at San Vittore del Lazio).

I received other news from Daniele Guglielmi (author of a couple of articles in Italian Models and History magazines on this unit). For example, the StuG.Abteilung (later Brigade) 242 marked its StuG with the numeric symbolin two letters (not three as I indicated on the wagon 201 .... so here we do not have a confirmation yet) and each platoon, with the letters A to D (Anton, Bertha, Caesar, Dora). Here we have the letter "A" in one of the two wagons. But the most interesting part, as I wrote yesterday, and that is coming to me (from Mr Karlheinz Münch, author of meny books on German tank unit) the memories of a soldier with Lietnant Kohbruk who reconstructs the action of his Death (which I add as soon as I receive.

finally, on the two interesting questions:

1. I do not know unfortunately
2. I really think so

thanks again Archie for your attention and your information.

ciao Oriano

Attached Files

San Vittorddde Italy. 28 January 1944_ (2).jpg (197.7 KB, 159 views)

**Luft 76** · 01-13-2019, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Archi View Post

- Until 1943, all soldiers of the "Sturmartillerie" were volunteers. Therefore, although it says "kommandiert",

- Perhaps also interesting : As this type of weapon was so new, its tasks were not totally clear in 1940.
It was considered useful as infantry support weapon against the enemies heavy infantry and AT-weapons, but
also considered as a possibly useful addition to the divisional artillery (with cross-country capabilities).
Therefore the crews were also trained to use indirect shots. (2nd scan)

...
Best regards,

Archi

Interesting comments Archi, as usual !

Formation of StuG. units are very interesting. I always wondered why the Germans called it Sturmartillerie and why they continued to send "simple gunners" into these units who play a role of antitank panzer ! ?
All the documents of Stug. Abt. I have seen are indeed of previous artillery men. But this is not the same combat mission at all !

**mufasa** · 01-14-2019, 04:54 AM

always on this interesting consideration of Archi on these artillerymen (volunteers) who become antitank "Sturmartillerie", we also confirm from this other atillery-gunner, volunteer, who becomes Sturmeschutz NCO in the Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 914.... more training on the field than at the school, but very similar...
ciao Oriano

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=verona

**Gary T** · 01-14-2019, 04:13 PM

It was the same in the British Army - all anti-tank regiments (towed or self-propelled) were Royal Artillery.

**Archi** · 01-25-2019, 06:49 PM

Hello !

Many thanks for your nice comments

!

It was the same in the British Army - all anti-tank regiments (towed or self-propelled) were Royal Artillery.

Interesting info provided by Gary T

!
I didn't know that !

@Oriano : As you are really the Master of finding all the interesting photos related to your docs,
I should have expected, that you already knew the one I posted

!

Regarding the interesting question by Luft 76, why this branch was subordinated to the Artillery :
It could be a mix of historic development (at first, the AT use was not so clear), and that the Artillery-Lehr-Rgt.
was located at the Jüterbog training ground, where the first tests of these weapons took place.
If I find better infos, I will try to post them.

Best regards,

Archi

**mufasa** · 01-29-2019, 03:16 PM

thanks to Daniele Guglielmi (one of the greatest experts in tanks and artillery of the IIWW and not only, than author of numerous books and articles on the subject) I have almost completed the information on the last two days of life of Commander Kohbruck.

But first two notes to rectification.
Post 14: Sturmgeshutz Abteilung moves from Formia on 7 January (and not 3 Jannuary)
Post 37: even if the archive note gives it as a picture of San Vittore del Lazio, there is a mistake because the Sturmgeshutz Abteilung 242 then Sturmegeshutz Brigade 242 did not use numbers to distinguish its tanks but only cap letters (ABCD) for the zug-platoon while the codes to distinguish the batteries are not clear

and here is the resolutive document (translated from German, in Italian and then in English): It is the complete transcription of the memories of Uffz. Otto Zirm, driver of last surviving Stug of Cassino, that of the Hotel Continetal, in the tank crew of the commander Schuman (post 1 of this topic).

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WP Oberleutnant Sturm.Gesh.Abt.242 Kia in Cassino

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