Soldbuch on Estand

[naxos]

I'm writing this not to point a finger at the seller, since I believe the seller probably does not know.

I write this to promote civil and critical discussion of these historical documents.

Also, I hope that some fakers out there will realize that rather than enhancing the price they destroy the value by doing this to original documents.


I like this tattered Soldbuch a lot and would buy it in an instant! - but unfortunately it has been tinkered with.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=977361

Here is why I like this Soldbuch:

1.) The POW camp replaced missing pages, verified by the "Forces Françaises Libres" stamps!

2.) The close combat day on March 24, 1945 in the Mosel Trier area!

I would buy this Soldbuch for more than what it's offered.

However, on a closer look I noticed discrepancies in the timeline of the awards.

The date of the Verwundetenabzeichen seems corrected to 4.5.43 (during that time the man was not wounded or with Gren Rgt 212.)

IMO, the date was changed from 4.5.44 to 4.5.43 to accommodate the fake, added entry of the EK2 in 1943. This allowed the faker to change the real EKII to an EKI.


This Soldbuch to me would be valuable regardless of the owner being awarded the EKI but now it's ruined.

The images below illustrate my points.

The last image is a photo shop reconstruction by me to show how the original entries appeared.

[Lionel H.]

Hi my FRiend. I unfortunately must confirm your opinion in all points, and moreover add that I have serious doubts also concerning the IAB Entry. The Writings from both lines EK.II/ISA are quite comparable, but I see no reason for the Writer to enter both lines so closed from each other, the Officer's Signature brings me to the same thought, the distance between the E.K.II Entry and the Signature itself seems natural, but the IAB... no more. JUst my opinion, others are very welcome.

I remember, one year ago, having bought 3-4 ID's on a german militaria Fair quite early in the morning.... Two were for me, and the two other for res-sale and try to reduce a little bit the Price of my new additions I scanned them both at Home, I wrote the short Text for the E-Stand.... and seconds before pressing "Enter" I saw a strange detail page 22, took my magnifier, and immediatly acquired the certitude that BOTH Iron Cross Entries were fake. I of course never published any thread, and this honest but ruined SB is now laying somewehere at Home...

I just want to explain this, as you did Naxos, to avoid pointing a finger at the seller : IT MAY HAPPENS to most of us.

About the other Points you mentioned, our Points are perfectly similar : the faker lost everything to earn what.... 20 bucks ?? 30 ?? A ridiculous gain compared to the risk taken, destroying an IMO VERY DESIRABLE SB with combat Content, a desirable 79.I.D. "Tapfer und Treu" Unit, great and absolutely uncommon replacement sheet stamped by french authorities..... Note this POW probably worked in the Kitchen for the officers of the Camp see stamp (Popote des officiers), a desirable Place for sure !!

THis SB, untouched, with "only" BWB and Iron Cross 2nd Cross was worth IMO at least 150,00 euros...... more than the Seller is currently asking for.

Manipulating original ID's to improve their financial value is really tough... I would suggest those who dare they can, trying make money with something else. They not only destroy an historical document, they spit on a soldier grave, and offense a human Memory.

[Tora_Tora_Tora!]

Great arguments Naxos and Lionel and great catch but, would it be possible any clerk mistake with corrections done by himself?

[Lionel H.]

A Clerk would have corrected the Stuff PRIOR being signed by the Officer. If the date had been false written, you would have found it "blackened" or crossed off with the appropriate mention such as "Steichung bescheinigt". Never forget a SB was an identity document (cover mention "zugleich Personalausweis"), those deletions/smudges not appreciated in case of control.. see last cover page "Bestimmungen" point 3 and 4 "Eigenmächtige änderungen werden als Urkundenfälschung bestraft", something sounding like "own corrections will be punished as falsification of Documents".

Of course, an exception may be found there or there, but some dubious entries from top to bottom of the page, never !

[Floris]

Hello all,

As the seller of this Soldbuch I will ofcourse reply to this thread.
The listed Soldbuch has been in my selling / trading box for a few years.
If I remember correctly I bought it at the MFF a few years ago.
I didn’t pay that much for it.
As my box needs some more space and my wallet some more money I decided to sell this one.
I did a quick search on the Lexikon and priced it cheap to sell it fast because of the missing pages and the worn condition.

I don’t have any intension to sell questionable items overhere, so thanks Naxos for opening this thread.
With a better look I see the errors wich Naxos was pointing at.

I missed the 1945 Westfront nahkampf- and sturmtage so thanks for the info.

So we can say this guy was awarded the;

- Wounded badge in Black (1944)
- EK 2
- Wounded Badge in Silver
- Krimschild

The EK 1 and the Infantry Assault Badge are added later. (To lower the price)

For the future I hope if an item of me is here to discuss please send me an pm.
Even if I’ am here on a daily base I miss sometimes things.
Thanks in advance.

Floris