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What is this: Stamm-Kartei entries in late war SBs or WPs. Ideas /Infos ?!

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    #1

    What is this: Stamm-Kartei entries in late war SBs or WPs. Ideas /Infos ?!

    Hello all!

    Some time ago, I stumbled across a handwritten entry in a late war Soldbuch,
    which I think would mean St.Kartei (= Stamm-Kartei) G.E.u.A. Btl. 46.

    At first I thought : haha, a funny mistake by an unexperienced clerk.
    He confused the abbreviation St.K. (for Stamm-Kompanie) with Stamm-Kartei.
    Then I noticed a similar entry in a WP. Also late war, perhaps the same mistake ?!

    See scans (apologies for the poor quality).
    Attached Files
    Tags: None
    #2
    But then I noticed similar entries made with a stamp, which could not be explained
    by a simple clerk error ...

    And finally, I found this term : "Gruppe Stamm-Kartei" (see last scan)
    written in an official document, related to movement orders of the replacement units in Aktion Leuthen (March 1945).

    So there seems to be something real, an official background, I know nothing about and I hope for some help !

    My questions :
    - How often are these entries found and from when on do they appear in the SBs/ Wehrpässe ?
    (I found entries only with dates Feb. 45 and later)
    - Has anyone infos/ideas about, what this "unit" Stamm-Kartei is ?!
    - Was there a reorganisation of the replacement units, where the former Stamm-Kompanien
    were reorganized in a certain way ?

    Any ideas /input /etc. on this would be really appreciated.

    Best regards,

    Archi
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      This is the only reference I can currently find:


      Die ausführlichsten Daten über die militärische Laufbahn und das zivile Vorleben ehemaliger Soldaten lassen sich dem Wehrstammbuch und der darin enthaltenen Wehrstammkarte entnehmen.
      Die Wehrstammkarte ist der für das Wehrbezirkskommando bestimmte Teil des Wehrstammblatts, das bei der Erfassung oder der Ausstellung eines Freiwilligenscheines von der polizeilichen Meldebehörde mithilfe von Einwohnerlisten und polizeilichen Meldescheinen erstellt und bei der Anmeldung des Dienstpflichtigen durch persönliche Angaben vervollständigt wurde. Danach wurde die Wehrstammkarte aus dem Wehrstammblatt herausgelöst und zusammen mit der Wehrstammrolle dem zuständigen Wehrbezirkskommando als Grundlage für Musterung und Aushebung übersandt. Mithilfe dieser Dokumente bereitete das Wehrbezirkskommando das Wehrstammbuch vor, das „bei der ersten Musterung durch Einkleben der Wehrstammkarte ausgefertigt“ wurde.
      Die Wehrstammbücher der Dienstpflichtigen wurden zunächst von ihren RAD- oder Wehrmachtseinheiten geführt und verblieben nach Ablauf der Dienstzeit zunächst in der Stammkartei der zuständigen Wehrersatzdienststellen. Nach Ausbruch des Zweiten Weltkrieges wurden die Wehrstammbücher der zu Feldeinheiten gehörenden Soldaten an die zuständigen Wehrersatzdienststellen abgegeben. Gleiches galt für die Wehrstammbücher der Soldaten des Ersatzheeres, die zum Feldheer übertraten. Die Wehrersatzdienststellen schrieben die Wehrstammbücher anhand der Informationen fort, die sie von den Truppenteilen, denen die Soldaten dienstlich oblagen, erhielten. Auf diese Weise sammelten sich im Laufe der Zeit zahlreiche Informationen über die militärische Laufbahn betreffende Vorgänge in den Wehrstammbüchern an, die nach exakt ausgearbeiteten Vorschriften in bestimmten Abschnitten des Wehrstammbuchs zu erfassen waren.


      /Ian
      Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

      Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

      Comment

        #4
        Hello Ian !

        Very interesting info (and gives me several points to think about).
        Many thanks and best regards,

        Archi

        Comment

          #5
          Hi,

          From the National Archives in the UK I have got the files from British intelligence on the German personnel documentation system. Obviously the aim of this is show to identify the documents and exploit them for intelligence purposes.

          However, it also tracks the changes in the system and does identify a German document published in AHM 476 on 24th August 1944 headed "Karteimittelvereinfachung (Totaler Krieg)" which they (British Intelligence) have translated as "Simplfication of Documentation (Total Warfare)".


          The aim was to reduce the amount of documentation and processing - for example, the Truppenstammrolle is discontinued, Ersatztruppenteile can replace the kompanielisten with a card index and register, changes to the processing and use of the verwundungskarte, wehrstammbuch, gesundheitsbuch etc

          All Wehrkreis were expected to have reorganised their documentation by 1st October 1944 and to have reported to OKH the amount of manpower saved(!) by 1st January 1945. This sounds incredible but it wasn't until I read these files that I realised the sheer scale of documentation the Germans produced and had to manage. I wonder if the entries you have seen are related to this?

          It is also clear German personnel documentation - especially soldbuchs - provided the Allies with excellent intelligence on German formations and how and where they were created. One file contains the analysis of captured soldbuchs (all in Italy) and, for example, from an analysis of 44 soldbuchs captured from Strum-Brigade Reichsfuhrer-SS personnel they end up with a very good idea what units were used to create it, when it was created, where it had been, where the replacement units were based. In some of the other groups they have identified officers by the signatures in the soldbuchs as well and what units they were commanding etc. they even have used the clothing and equipment issued to make judgements about the supply situation.

          And before anyone asks - no, sadly none of the original soldbuchs are in the files...

          Comment

            #6
            Hello Gary T !

            Many thanks for your very detailed and informative answer. I think this points exactly in the right direction !

            I need to compile some facts, related to yours and Ians replies and maybe ... (who knows) ...
            the forum software allows me later on, to post something of that !
            [Is it possible that the server is simply located in the Carribean ... !?
            (It somehow reminds me of : Maybe today, maybe tomorrow ... ) ]

            Thanks again to both of you and best regards,

            Archi
            Last edited by Archi; 09-12-2018, 04:33 PM.

            Comment

              #7
              Hello !

              Third try, because of forum problems, then I will give up ...

              I think what Gary posted, is exactly related to, what can be seen in those SB/WP entries, named Stamm-Kartei.
              (I'll post an excerpt of the order as reference).

              Before trying to translate and explain, there is still a major question :
              The order is given in Aug./Sept. 1944 (and should be applied immediately). (I would think, that this was applied much later.)
              However, I would still be interested, what is the earliest date where any of those Stamm-Kartei entries show up !

              ( I'll offer a bet :
              If anyone can show such an entry before 1.1.1945, I'll offer : a "Kasten Bier", a handful of Big Macs,
              or something similar useful ... shipping worldwide ... but not very fast ... )
              (If there is a date in January 1945 (and not hundreds), maybe we can discuss ... )


              I'll try to summarize, how I understand the order :
              In general, the order Gary T referred to, says that it might be possible to pare down personnel (I hope the translation is correct),
              if some replacement units, where a Stamm-Kp. and one (or more) Genesenden-Kp. are existing,
              combine those administrative elements, concerned with the task of Karteimittelführung (translation ?!)
              into one Stamm-Kanzlei (= Gruppe Stamm-Kartei I assume), located at the Bataillons-Stab.

              The info from Gary and Ian is related to several other interesting topics, but that needs more time.

              Best regards,

              Archi
              Attached Files

              Comment

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