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    #1

    What date is the earliest Soldbuch in your collection ?!

    Hello to all !

    Due to a recent discussion, I would like to ask all members:
    What is the earliest date on Soldbuch, p. 2 in your collection ?!
    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...9&postcount=38
    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...7&postcount=39

    Background of the question is the following :
    My understanding was, that Soldbuch and EKM were issued at the time of mobilization (=war was coming, ~26.8.39 and after that).
    However, there seem to be several examples of Soldbuchs (maybe EKM also) issued earlier.

    It might be interesting to see some examples of those early date Soldbuchs and to discuss, how that early dates can be explained :
    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...9&postcount=41
    Thanks in advance for every contribution
    and best regards,

    Archi
    Tags: None
    #2
    again
    my relatively earliest 2 soldbuches,
    1, 1939.3.13 Adjutant to Regiment (mot)
    2, 1939.7.15 SS-VT "D"
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      The 13th of March 1939 seems to be reoccurring: Incidentally, during the night to March 13, 1939 units of the Wehrmacht were mobilized for the coming occupation of Czechoslovakia.

      "In der Nacht zum 13. März 1939 wurde ein Mobilmachungsbefehl, für sofort in Marsch zu setzende Teile der ... (Wehrmacht) ... ausgegeben. Dies wurde wegen des bevorstehenden Einmarsches in die Tschechoslowakei gemacht."

      I believe in this example the date is right but the year is a clerical error (it should read 1939). Kavallerie-Schützen-Regiment 9 was mobilized for the occupation of Czechoslovakia on March 13, 1939

      .
      Attached Files
      Last edited by naxos; 04-08-2018, 09:38 PM.

      Comment

        #4
        find this with the soldbuch dated 1939.3.13
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          My earliest Soldbuch is dated March 12th, 1.939, but as stated by others, I think this is the date the soldier entered the service, all the rest are dated August or later. I will attach examples from my collection of Soldbuchs opened prior the hostilities.

          Angel
          Attached Files
          Looking for DKiG Heer winner Soldbuch who also won the TDB and/or CCC, specially in Silver.

          Comment

            #6
            More
            Attached Files
            Looking for DKiG Heer winner Soldbuch who also won the TDB and/or CCC, specially in Silver.

            Comment

              #7
              Last
              Attached Files
              Looking for DKiG Heer winner Soldbuch who also won the TDB and/or CCC, specially in Silver.

              Comment

                #8
                Here are early dates from some of the Soldbuchs that I have. All are Heer and to different units.

                - 2 Okt 1938

                - 10 Mar 1939

                - 11 Mar 1939

                - 14 Mar 1939

                - 31 Jul 1939

                - 1 Aug 1939

                - 2 Aug 1939

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hello

                  Here are early dates from some of the Soldbuchs that . One are Heer and other ss units





                  23.08.1938

                  24.09.1938

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Hello !

                    Many thanks to all for those very interesting contributions so far .
                    I'll try to collect some further informations on the topic and will add them here as soon as possible.

                    Thanks again and best regards

                    Archi

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hello !

                      Many thanks again for all the interesting contributions.

                      At first glance, it seems obvious, that many of the very early dates are connected to the two dates of :
                      - 01.10.38 Einmarsch (annexation of) to Sudetenland, as a result of the Munich Agreement
                      - 15.03.39 Annexation of the "Rest-Tschechei".

                      Ian and naxos made the suggestion, that those early dates could be more likely the dates of the
                      respective soldier's enrollment, rather than the date when the SB was actually issued to the soldier.

                      This view is strongly supported by Ians analysis, that the SB in the other thread was issued to a Gefreiter,
                      but that the promotion to this rank was on 8.8.39, while the issue date says: 13.3.39.

                      I think a very similar example is shown here by David/DLD13, with the posting of a SB from 2. Kp./Nachr.Abt. 79.
                      Issue date is 23.08.1938, but the 2. Kp./Na.Abt. 79, which stamped the SB, was formed only in March 1939 (see scan).
                      So this could be a similar case, where the soldier was drafted/etc. in August 38, but the SB filled in later on.

                      There seem to be no SBs e 1issued in April-June 1939 ?!

                      But then, there are two other groups of early dated SBs :
                      - late July/early August 39, and the second group
                      - mid August 39, (e.g. 15., 16., 19. Aug., shown by Angel),
                      both clearly earlier than 25./26.8.39, when I think the regular mobilization started for all of the German Army.

                      I see two possible solutions to the puzzle :
                      a) All SB issue dates earlier than 25./26.8.39 are related to some clerk "issues", similar to the examples mentioned before.
                      b) At least from late July 39 onward, there exist some Soldbuchs, that were indeed issued very early, prior to 26.8.39,
                      namely when the respective unit was actually mobilized for war.

                      The big question for me is :
                      => Would there be any dated entries, that could prove, that the SB was in the soldiers hands before 26.8.39 ??!
                      Currently, I could mainly think of weapon/equipment entries or immunizations.
                      If there would be such entries, the owners of those early SBs could easily check ...
                      Maybe someone has even a Wehrpass - Soldbuch combo ?!

                      Any comments or ideas would be welcome !

                      Thanks and best regards,

                      Archi

                      P.S.: Why I am not hopeless :
                      => SB from Angel to soldier of 2. s.Bttr. Art.Rgt.50 (became IV./AR 14, 14. Inf.Div.)
                      -- issued 1.8.39 (at: Grimma); (AR 14 located at Naumburg at that date)
                      => SB from Angel to soldier 4.(MG)/Btl. 52 (was assigned to Pz.Abw.Abt. 2, 2. Inf.Div.(mot))
                      -- issued 16.8.39 (at: Munster, place of mobilization); MG-Btl. 52 was garrisoned in Bremen with 3 companies.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Very interesting question and thread Archi. I discovered that I had no Sb. dated before 20 or 26 august 39. Even for 1934 or 36-38 veterans. I had not realy realized it previously. Thanks for that thinking.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hello !

                          Thanks to Luft 76 for sharing the interest in this topic .

                          I tried to compile a list of units, that should have started the mobilization process already before 26.8.39.
                          Perhaps it makes it easier, to first check Soldbuchs of these units for some early dates.
                          (especially for those with many, many Soldbuchs in their collection).
                          It would be great, if someone finds the time to check .

                          Also any further contribution/idea on this topic and/or the process of mobilization in general
                          (e.g.: what was issued when: EKM, SBs, what equipment) would be really appreciated !

                          Thanks and best regards,

                          Archi

                          ========
                          List of early mobilized inf. divisions (1st date from works by Haupt, Gross; 2nd: div. hsitories ...):

                          __Unit:______Mob_Date___
                          _1. Inf.Div.___17.08.39 [WK I]
                          _3. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 [WK III] (div. history : 01.08.39)
                          _4. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 [WK IV] (div. hist. Grams : end July/early Aug.)
                          _7. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 (?!) [WK VII]
                          _8. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 [WK VIII]
                          11. Inf.Div.___18.08.39 [WK I] (div. history : Mob. start : mid. Aug.39)
                          12. Inf.Div.___12.07.39 [WK II] (27.07.39: Transfer to Pillau, =>Tannenbergfeier 27.8.39)
                          14. Inf.Div.___03.08.39 [WK IV]
                          21. Inf.Div.___21.08.39 [WK I] (div. history : 16.08.39)
                          22. Inf.Div.___18.08.39 [WK X] (div. history : 16.08.39)
                          28. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 [WK VIII]
                          32. Inf.Div.___01.08.39 [WK II] (div. history : prep. already in July, Mob. start :1.8.39)
                          50., 60., 72. ID : special cases

                          ID(mot.) :
                          _2. ID(mot.)____mid Aug.39 (mobilization Aug. 39, finished by 20.8.39) (Niepold, div. history)
                          13. ID(mot.)____mid Aug.39 (Anf-Mitte Aug. 39)
                          20. ID(mot.)____mid Aug.39 (~22.8.39)
                          29. ID(mot.)____mid Aug.39 (div. history : 18.08.39)

                          ========
                          Just for comparison:
                          All Pz.Divs. and leichte Divs. :
                          ----
                          Pz.Div. :
                          _1. Pz.Div.____End Aug.39 (div. history : Mob. start : end Aug.39)
                          _2. Pz.Div.____ca. 20. Aug.39 (div. history)
                          _3. Pz.Div.____End Aug.39
                          _4. Pz.Div.____18.08.39 (div. history)
                          _5. Pz.Div.____18.08.39 (Gross, )
                          10. Pz.Div.____End Aug.39 (div. history : 26.-31.08.39)

                          _1. le.Div.____20.08.39 (div. history)
                          _2. le.Div.____End Aug.39
                          _3. le.Div.____24.08.39 (Gross, )
                          _4. le.Div.____24.08.39 (Gross, )

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Like the LAH-Soldbuch shown by "DLD13": Issued on 24.09.1938, signature by Kurt Meyer.

                            Best, Peter
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hello Peter !

                              Many thanks for your contribution to this thread !

                              Also very interesting SB of course, and same date, same unit, same signature to that of David.
                              Hopefully more soon, once the Sucuri firewall issues are solved.

                              Thanks and best regards,

                              Archi

                              Comment

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