Two us gi bringback wehrpasses from 353 id normndy

[Daniele C]

nice! any other info?

[Luft 76]

I would imagine that all of the Wehrpass for the 353rd Division was held by the G1 or Personnel Section in one location. When the Division collapsed these were simply abandoned and were later found by souvenir seekers. In the chaos of the Falaise Gap Battle there had to be thousands of these laying around.
Marion

In fact impossible, Wp. were held but the first unit level : the company. Impossible to imagine all divisionnal Wp. stored at the same place. Hence my surprise and question since many years.

[Stormfighter]

I have acquired a dozen or more Wehrpässe from U.S. veterans who brought them back as souvenirs. Most of them were from the Normandy Campaign. My observation is that most were taken from overrun battalion headquarters. I doubt Wehrpässe were filed at company command posts - battalion headquarters makes the most sense. Once I acquired five Wehrpässe from the same regiment and all of the soldiers were assigned to the same battalion.

Barry

[Luft 76]

OK, but if Wp. were filed by bataillon's HQ, how explain stamps realised at the Coy level, and handwritten by the Coy chief ? It's never the bataillon chief who signed entries, awards or importants datas in these booklets. And it is hard to imagine a bataillon's level storage with a company secretariat activity.
I would be interested to find explanation.

[JUNGCO]

The Kriegsstammrollen were kept at company level, so therefore the Wehrpaß were kept there also. as all the entries in the Wehrpaß were supposed to match the entries in the Kriegsstammrollen.
Jeff

[Stormfighter]

OK, but if Wp. were filed by bataillon's HQ, how explain stamps realised at the Coy level, and handwritten by the Coy chief ? It's never the bataillon chief who signed entries, awards or importants datas in these booklets. And it is hard to imagine a bataillon's level storage with a company secretariat activity.
I would be interested to find explanation.

I may be wrong, but I am fairly convinced that Wehrpässe were filed at battalion headquarters. As I mentioned, I once acquired five Wehrpässe from soldiers who served in the same battalion - I forgot to mention they served in different companies of the same battalion, which leads me to believe Wehrpässe were filed at battalion headquarters. When company commanders closed out Wehrpässe, they may have traveled to their battalion headquarters; alternately, I wouldn't rule out that the Wehrpässe for KIA soldiers were requested to be sent from battalion headquarters to the company command post (company and battalion messengers would have carried out this task). I still own two Wehrpässe for an officer and an enlisted man of Grenadier-Regiment 1057 who served in different companies of the same battalion and fought at the Mederet Causeway on D-Day. These Wehrpässe were taken as souvenirs by an American soldier who picked them up at the same time. As I said, I could be wrong, but from the evidence I have from Wehrpässse brought back by U.S. veterans, I am rather convinced that Wehrpässe were filed at battalion headquarters.

[JUNGCO]

Barry,
So, you are telling me that every time a new entry was written in a Wehrpaß, it had to be sent from the Battalion to the company to get the company commander's signature and back again?
Jeff

[Luft 76]

Barry

Your five Sb. example is indeed very disturbing, but as Jungco, I am very sceptical about such movements between bataillons and companies.

[Stormfighter]

Barry,
So, you are telling me that every time a new entry was written in a Wehrpaß, it had to be sent from the Battalion to the company to get the company commander's signature and back again?
Jeff

Absolutely not. Mostly when Wehrpässe were closed out in the field and when awards or promotions were entered. I just remembered another grouping of IDs - about ten - I bought about 25 years ago from a dealer who bought them from the same veteran. Two of the Wehrpässe were from Artillerie-Regiment 353 and both soldiers served in different batteries. I'm not ruling out that Wehrpässe may have been filed on a company level, but the evidence I have seen from IDs that were brought back by U.S. veterans points to them being filed at battalion headquarters.

[mwliles]

To everyone I have very much enjoyed this discussion as I am always eager to learn about the German Army. My opinions are shaped from my time in the US Army where each battalion had a PAC section of 4-6 guys headed by the Battalion G-1 normally a LT that has already served as a Platoon Leader and had proven himself. So this makes me ask did a typical German Company have a Clerk and if so what equipment and documents did he have with him. Where did he operate from and who supported him with security and life support? With some of the desperate tactical situations the Germans found themselves in would this clerk not be manning a 98K or MG34 instead of sitting somewhere in the rear working on personnel files? Did this clerk also sign his Commander's name to documents? This was common practice in the US Army and was only amplified in the sitcom MASH. Again thanks for the comments this is why I am a member of this forum.
marion

[InfanterieSammler]

The fog of war?

Is it not possible that a company (or companies) left their paperwork with the battalion HQ for a time?

I agree that the Wehrpaß was filled out at the company level, however when deployed in combat, could or would they be carried forward in the field? Normally, they would be left behind at the company HQ. Due to the exigencies of war, this may have not always made sense or have been possible. At this point, a standard company of 120-150 men might only field 50-60 men. Rather than have the paperwork spread all over the field, it may have been more expedient to leave at the battalion level where company clerks could return to handle company housekeeping. Remember, these were not filled out on a daily basis, as this was just not possible in a combat environment.

Regards,
John

John

[Admiraal]

In my opinion it was on company level. Wasn't the box full of Wehrpässe found in Halbe from one company?
Maybe the Wehrpässe of captured, wounded and death soldiers were send from the company to the Bataillon to be processed??

[Fred Green]

Hello,

The US Army has a manual and regulations stating where paperwork originated and how it moved through the units at all levels.The Germans most likely had the same. I am sure one of our German friends could help us find this information out. I for one have always wondered where the wehrpass' were kept.

Fred

[jmark]

Wehrpässe were kept and updated at company level. The company was considered the smallest building block in the Wehrmacht, and as such, it had a small staff (led by the Spieß) that took care of the paperwork.

Battlefield conditions, particular dire situations such as Normandy, may have messed up this neat system. If entire companies/batteries were wiped out, their records – usually kept further in the rear – would be sent up the chain of command for proper handling.

There's also other reasons Wehrpässe from different companies/batteries were found together, the most obvious being transfers. If a man was transferred from one company/battery to another within his same battalion, his Wehrpass was also transferred. Updating them in combat conditions was a low priority (after all, the clerks were busy with other paperwork, such as orders, reports, etc.) and was usually postponed until quieter periods. If this is combined with a catastrophe like Falaise, then it's easier to comprehend finding Wehrpässe from different units in the one location.

Jason

[Stormfighter]

Wehrpässe were kept and updated at company level. The company was considered the smallest building block in the Wehrmacht, and as such, it had a small staff (led by the Spieß) that took care of the paperwork.

Battlefield conditions, particular dire situations such as Normandy, may have messed up this neat system. If entire companies/batteries were wiped out, their records – usually kept further in the rear – would be sent up the chain of command for proper handling.

There's also other reasons Wehrpässe from different companies/batteries were found together, the most obvious being transfers. If a man was transferred from one company/battery to another within his same battalion, his Wehrpass was also transferred. Updating them in combat conditions was a low priority (after all, the clerks were busy with other paperwork, such as orders, reports, etc.) and was usually postponed until quieter periods. If this is combined with a catastrophe like Falaise, then it's easier to comprehend finding Wehrpässe from different units in the one location.

Jason

Well stated Jason and I this is why I think company Wehrpässe often ended up at battalion headquarters in Normandy.

Barry