Dug Erkennungmarke

[W Petz]

I was asked to post the ID Tags that I found distributed throughout several mounds of dirt that was deposited next to Kilbourne Kaserne, Schwetzingen, Germany. Great heaps if dirt were removed from the parking lot of 1st PERSCOM Kilbourne kaserne back in the 1990's to enlarge and resurface the old parking lot. Apparently there was a large hole dug in that area after the occupation of Panzer Kaserne (Tompkins Barracks) and material from the Barracks was buried in the area where Kilbourne Kaserne was constructed after the war. I found a large amount of other items as well (buttons, Panzer Badges, training grenades heads, bullets, etc.). There was evidence of a fire as I found pieces of Black Panzer uniforms, melted aluminum and glass. Only the surface was scraped off so I believe there is much more down deeper below the resurfaced parking lot. For obvious reasons I couldn't dig deeper as I would get in trouble so It was easier to check the large mounds of the kaserne and outside the security gate. Anyway here is a scan of the ID Tags. Sorry this is all I can do for now as I just had eye surgery yesterday and I'm supposed to be facedown on a special pad right now and for the next five days.

The lower ID Tags are blank as I found a large amount of those as well.

[Pitomnik]

Can you post photos of each dogtag ?
I have some doubt .....

[spin9977]

The tags are good

[W Petz]

Are you serious? There are 20 Erkennungsmarke and I'm not going to scan them because you have doubts....Sorry you have doubts....I don't have doubts because I dug them up myself and I have a witness who is a member of WAF and lives close by Schwetzingen. I gave him one of the Pz Jg. Ers. Abt. 33 ID Tags straight from the dig and he has been at that site. This Panzer unit was one of the units located in Schwetzingen and then later in Landau. I believe the various Pz. ID Tags were turned in for new ones and when the Panzer Kaserne was taken over and occupied by US Forces all the stuff in Barracks that was not taken as souvenirs was taken out and buried...there is much evidence that this was done. Many of the items were burned as I found melted aluminum ID Tags. This was a common practice whenever a kaserne was captured as I found many items at several different kasernes when they were doing construction such as Taylor Bks, Coleman Bks, Funari Bks in Mannheim, Tompkins Bks (Panzer Kaserne) Schwetzingen and Grafenwoehr main post.

Can you post photos of each dogtag ?
I have some doubt .....

[naxos]

Great find, Bill!

Agree, tags are genuine

[Pitomnik]

Pz.Abw.Ers. unit - on late war rostfrei plate ? ))))
Tell me please about "Ranzer Abwer Ersatz Kompanie 263".

[W Petz]

What's so funny? This is entirely normal for Panzer and Panzerjaeger Crews

That unit did exist and was associated with Landau as well

Here read it for yourself....Mr. Expert on German ID Tags


<big><big>Panzerabwehr-Abteilung 263</big></big>
Aufgestellt am 26. August 1939 aus den Panzer-Abwehr-Ergänzungs-Kompanien 4-6/33 in Landau. Am 1. April 1940 in die
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 263 und am 6. April 1942 in
Panzerjäger- und Aufklärungs-Abteilung 263 umgegliedert. Dabei wurde die Radfahr-Schwadron 263 eingegliedert. Am 15. August 1942 wurde die Abteilung in
Schnelle Abteilung 263 umbenannt. Diese wurde mit Wirkung vom 31. März 1943 aufgelöst. Aus der Abteilung entstand die Aufklärungs-Abteilung 263 (s.u.) und die
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 263. Am 1. August 1943 wurde die 2. Kompanie an die schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 664 abgegeben. Dafür wurde die Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1263 eingegliedert. Am 1. Mai 1944 hatte die Abteilung einen Bestand von einer 8,8-cm Pak, vier 7,5-cm Pak 41, fünf 7,5-cm Pak 40 und zwei 3,7-cm Flak sowie einen Personalbestand von 8 Offizieren, 47 Unteroffizieren, 159 Mannschaften und 25 Hiwi. Im August / September 1944 wurde die 2. Kompanie zur Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1263 umgegliedert.
Kommandeure:
Hauptmann Keßler (August 1939 bis 1942)
Major Egger (1942 – 1943)
Major Großmann (ab 1944)
Major Volkmer


The fact is I did find them where I said I found them and they are all original ground finds in the same location coming out of Kilbourne Kaserne just a short way from Panzer Kaserne (Tompkins Bks) so you can laugh all you want. Any further discussion with you is a waste of time.

Pz.Abw.Ers. unit - on late war rostfrei plate ? ))))
Tell me please about "Ranzer Abwer Ersatz Kompanie 263".

[Pitomnik]

Thanks for info from "Lexikon" & your sarcasm ! Please be coltural, mr. surep expert ....
I ask you about "Panzer Abwer Ersatz kompanie 263"
On your dogtag - "Pz.Abw.E.Kp.263" , if it "Panzerabwer abteilung 263" - why no write "Kompanie" number ? 263 Pz.Abw.Abt - incl. 3 Kompanie !
If you dont know - in 1940 year all "Pz.Abwer" units was renamed in "Pz.Jag."
And in 1940 - "Panzerabwer" units , dont use rostfrei dogtag.
P.S. Instead of your sarcasm - show large scannings (both side). Not all dogtags.
It is possible only 3.
Pz. Abw.263
Pz. Ers. Abt 25
Pz. Art. Rgt

[W Petz]

Mr. Pitomnik,

First of all I never said I was an expert....my purpose of this thread was to show my finds. I cannot explain why the ID Tag is marked that way but I do know I found them all together in the same location and you can say what you want as you are the one projecting that you are the expert. They are all original. I'm saying no more on the subject so please have a nice day.

Thanks for info from "Lexikon" & your sarcasm ! Please be coltural, mr. surep expert ....
I ask you about "Panzer Abwer Ersatz kompanie 263"
On your dogtag - "Pz.Abw.E.Kp.263" , if it "Panzerabwer abteilung 263" - why no write "Kompanie" number ? 263 Pz.Abw.Abt - incl. 3 Kompanie !
If you dont know - in 1940 year all "Pz.Abwer" units was renamed in "Pz.Jag."
And in 1940 - "Panzerabwer" units , dont use rostfrei dogtag.

[Pitomnik]

Mr. Petz!
I did not speak - " yours dogtags fake! "
Only has asked 1-2 good photos or scans !
Here such for example! I have made a photo my phone right now.
Time needed 1 minute!

[PzV]

I was along with Bill as we sorted through the sand piles on this years ago. Many of the dogtags were blank and had not been imprinted yet. I also have a few in my collection. It is important to note that these were not from fallen soldiers! We also found Losantin containers and other items (Bill even found a license plate) as well as mess hall porcelain. After the US forces occupied these bases it was common practice to have POW's clean the area of debris and this was dumped into air raid trenches that were all over the area. When the parking lot was done at former Großdeutschland Kaserne in Heidelberg (later Campbell Barracks) a number of gas masks etc. came to light. In Mannheim-Käfertal at the former Funari Bks, the tubes from fired Panzerfaust were found and even a 2 cm cannon during trench work and in Coleman Barracks (Mannheim-Sandhofen) which was the former Pik Ass (ace of spades) Geschwader aircraft parts were found.

[Pitomnik]

Ok ! But why Bill don't want show his dogtags ?
I can show "Heap of dogtag" too - but it's not interesting for WAF members !
I think - all want the photos or scans ! But - sharp and detail photo !

[W Petz]

Yes you did...Your statement that you had doubts tells me that you think they were not original and your argument about the markings....It is my choice not to show closeup's of these ID Tags as I was not asking for opinions on whether they were real...I know they are real. Several forum members have said they were original and my good friend Jim was there and knows they were found by me and original. So I'm very sorry but I am not going to honor your request so all you are going to see is what I have already posted.

Mr. Petz!
I did not speak - " yours dogtags fake! "
Only has asked 1-2 good photos or scans !
Here such for example! I have made a photo my phone right now.
Time needed 1 minute!

[Pitomnik]

Ok !)))) It's your choice !))))
Ask "Several forum members" about any proof or argument for her opinions.....
Only words.... no more....
I think, therefore you do not wish to show detailed photos.....

[W Petz]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for taking the time and chiming in on this thread. There are always doubters...you and I know that and have seen stuff come out of the ground in our old stomping grounds. It's really sad that most likely the WW2 TR kasernes will disappear in the near future making room for highrise apartments. You might want to keep a lookout for construction after all those syrian and african refugees leave the bases in Schwetzingen, Heidelberg and Mannheim. Remember that there is a Panzer buried in the old motorpool on Tompkins so that may come to light one day if they decide to break up all the cement that it is buried under.

Bill

I was along with Bill as we sorted through the sand piles on this years ago. Many of the dogtags were blank and had not been imprinted yet. I also have a few in my collection. It is important to note that these were not from fallen soldiers! We also found Losantin containers and other items (Bill even found a license plate) as well as mess hall porcelain. After the US forces occupied these bases it was common practice to have POW's clean the area of debris and this was dumped into air raid trenches that were all over the area. When the parking lot was done at former Großdeutschland Kaserne in Heidelberg (later Campbell Barracks) a number of gas masks etc. came to light. In Mannheim-Käfertal at the former Funari Bks, the tubes from fired Panzerfaust were found and even a 2 cm cannon during trench work and in Coleman Barracks (Mannheim-Sandhofen) which was the former Pik Ass (ace of spades) Geschwader aircraft parts were found.