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    #1

    SS StuG Soldbuch CCC

    Hello

    Just got this nice set, I think it is fine but still want red flags check

    I was able to find his SS number - 423889
    Any kind of additional info/opinions about Soldbuch/dog tag are much uppreciated

    Regards
    Michael
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    #2
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      #3
      *.*.*
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        #4
        ***---
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          #5
          .*.*...****
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            #6
            looks like a nice one with no red flags. i would have expected the photo wearing an Officer jacket but he wasnt too bothered probably

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              #7
              Great soldbuch Micheal! Compliments!

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                #8
                Jesus, that is so awesome...
                Last edited by Sd.Kfz.171; 09-10-2015, 12:20 PM.

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                  #9
                  Michael,

                  Did you buy the entire grouping or just the Soldbuch and dog tag? I owned this grouping about twenty-five years ago and can tell you more about it.

                  Barry
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                    #10
                    Something was erased under "C" on page 4 but a very nice Soldbuch.
                    Jeff

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by JUNGCO View Post
                      Something was erased under "C" on page 4 but a very nice Soldbuch.
                      Jeff

                      Jeff,

                      You are correct and I can explain it; first, I'd like to know if Michael bought the full group or just the Soldbuch and Erkennungsmarke.

                      Barry
                      Last edited by Stormfighter; 09-10-2015, 01:33 PM.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Stormfighter View Post
                        Jeff,

                        You are correct and I can explain it; first, I'd like to know if Michael bought the full group or just the Soldbuch and Erkennungsmarke.

                        Barry
                        I bought full group:-)
                        Last edited by Michael73; 09-10-2015, 04:06 PM.

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                          #13
                          I bought this grouping of SS-Obersturmführer Hans Wieneke about twenty-five years ago from a militaria dealer who has made buying trips to Germany since the 1970s. The grouping was purchased in Germany and brought back to the U.S. in the late 1980s. I only owned it for a year or so. A collector in Hawaii talked me out of it and he obviously decided to sell or trade it. Michael, I can confirm that you have all the components of the grouping. I am really glad that it wasn't broken up!

                          Michael, this should be a nice surprise for you: the SS-Führerschein is signed on the top reverse by SS-Obersturmführer Otto Skorzeny, which was not mentioned in Helmut Weitze's listing. Beyond the Soldbuch and Erkennungsmarke (Dog Tag or Identification Tag), the photo album is truly amazing. I remember well that Kampfgruppe Fegelein is mentioned in the album and that there are several photos showing a line of SS soldiers who were in formation for a review by their commanding officer. At the far left of the line is the tallest SS soldier I have ever seen photographed. I wouldn't doubt he was close to seven feet tall. You can see him in this link to Weitze's website:

                          https://www.weitze.net/militaria/32/...n__246232.html

                          Now to the erased entries on page 3 and on page 4, section C (Feldtruppenteil), line b, which I believe were written in green ink. I didn't fully study the grouping until after I bought it and after having a closer look, I saw that some entries had been added. I completely forget what entry was forged on page 3, but I can assure you that it did not correctly fit with Wieneke's service and was in the same handwriting as the erased entry on page 4. On page 4, the entry below SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 2 "Das Reich" also had been added by a forger. I can't remember what unit was written in, but it was clearly forged. The handwriting was poor and did not flow. I think the entry read Kampfgruppe Fegelein and had something else written after that. The entry was doubtlessly added to support the fact that the photo album belonged to Wieneke, who indeed had served with Kampfgruppe Fegelein - the added entries were completely unnecessary. Since Wieneke's Zweitschrift (Second Issue) Soldbuch was issued to him on 20 December 1943 - after the disbandment of Kampfgruppe Fegelein in the summer of 1943 - there is no way that Kampfgruppe Fegelein or any of its affiliated units would have been entered in the Soldbuch after SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 2 "Das Reich" was entered. I don't know if I would do this today, but at the time I was in my twenties and decided to remove the fake entries with an eraser. Perhaps I didn't do the best job, but the Soldbuch has only the entries it had prior to May 1945. In my opinion, the removal of the entries is a very minor liability to the grouping now that I have documented the story behind the addition and removal of the entries here.

                          Wieneke was promoted to SS-Untersturmführer sometime in 1942 and served with Kampfgruppe Fegelein probably until the unit was disbanded in the summer of 1943. In September and October 1943, he was an instructor for an SS-Unterführer-Lehrgang (SS NCO Course) while serving with SS-Sturmgeschütz Ersatz-und-Ausbildungs-Abteilung in Heidelager. On 20 December 1943, Wieneke was issued his Zweitschrift Soldbuch by this unit. Although he was an SS-Obersturmführer at this time, he submitted a photo of himself when he was an SS officer candidate, which may date from as early as 1941. It perfectly illustrates that units were not concerned about the soldier's photo matching his current rank - the most important thing was that the photo clearly showed the soldier's face for identification purposes.

                          Sometime after 20 December 1943, probably in early 1944, Wieneke was assigned to the SS-Panzerjäger (Sturmgeschütz) Schule in Janowitz. A security check on page 23 shows that he was still assigned to this unit on 1 September 1944. Interestingly, Wieneke was awarded the Close Combat Clasp in Bronze on 25 May 1944. It makes me wonder which unit he served with when he participated in these close combat days. I'm guessing they took place in 1941 when he served with an infantry unit and it just took a long time to have the close combat days verified.

                          Sometime after 1 September 1944, Wieneke was assigned to SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 2 "Das Reich", which was his final unit. I believe he participated in the Battle of the Bulge and was captured during this campaign. The cover has information about his POW camp, which I don't think was in France. Does anyone know what language uses the word Boxe? I assume it means section or block, so Wieneke was in Section II, Barrack 10 of a POW camp that I could not determine.

                          Perhaps Wieneke's records are on file at the National Archives in College Park, Maryland. During my next visit there, I'll see if his file is on microfilm.

                          You have a wonderful grouping and I am really glad to see that it resurfaced after so many years.

                          Barry
                          Last edited by Stormfighter; 09-10-2015, 07:56 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Stormfighter View Post
                            Michael, this should be a nice surprise for you: the SS-Führerschein is signed on the top reverse by SS-Obersturmführer Otto Skorzeny, which was not mentioned in Helmut Weitze's listing. Barry

                            very interesting!

                            and a fantastic group! congratulation!!
                            Oriano

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                              #15
                              Hi Barry

                              Fantastic info!
                              I think it was brave form you to remove these fake entries and I am glad you did it - those removals are barely seen...

                              As to Skorzeny signature - I really appreciate your input!

                              Any ideas about lower signature?
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                              Last edited by Michael73; 09-11-2015, 02:25 AM.

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