Wehrpass: Gustav Geer - Luftwaffe - Flak-Strum-Regiment 20

[avenger]

Hi folks,

I've been here a while buying in the e-stand section, and haven't posted anything for review. But, I wanted to get your opinions on this Wehrpass I bought from here. The kind folks at warrelics.eu have questioned the authenticity of parts of the activity and the awards. It seems he was stationed to the home front in Germany for home defense as the last inked in entry, and all the sudden in pencil he's engaged in many of the most known battles on the western front. Some of these battles do in fact mesh with unit history I found. It appears to be a reissue pass as well.

I have no reason to doubt the very knowledgeable and kind friends I have at warrelics.eu, but would like to get as many opinions as I can on this one before asking to return it or throwing it into the fake pile. Thanks so much for all your expertise and willingness to share it with those of us starting out!

[Diaspora]

Hello.

I don't like it! The almost total abscense of verifying stamps/signatures, and all the pencil-written entries? The awards section looks very messy and 3 awards all entered in the same couple of days, I'm always suspicious of that.

I'm have no real expertice, but my gutfeeling says no.

[naxos]

The Pass is a Zweitschrift (replacement) issued in October 1944 (as you probably know).

The entries that are IMO post war additions are:

[naxos]

and

[naxos]

I think I got them all

[avenger]

I've spent the night going through multiple units and divisions, mapping out all the units that the historical record shows starting with III/Lw Artillerie Regiment 17, in 1942. It was a tangled web of reorganizations and unit and division movements, which I suppose isn't surprising for this time in the war. Most of what I see in the Wehrpass fits all this quite well, although I cannot read the battle list well enough to Google translate pages 30, 31, and 32. I compared dates of entries, with the battle list in question at warrelics.eu, and the unit movements from my research to give a small look at the penciled in battles. If I knew what pages 31 and 32 translated to, I could finish the research. But, with what I have, here are the results:

Historical record found at Asisbiz history section Luftwaffe Unit Higher Headquarters

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Unit Activity (from Wehrpass) starting late 1942

Nov 30, 1942 - 13 Flack Korps to:
Dec 1, 1942 thru Oct 8, 1943 - III / Lw Artillerie Regiment 17, Stab

EKII - Noted 4/28/45 as "17.Flakdiv." The Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17 was formed Dec 1942 in Luftgau-Kommando VII. This corresponds to page 12 of pass, and could have been awarded during this time. Why it's not recorded on the pass until 1945, could be the same as why the EK1 and Ground Assault badge were not, if it is clerical catchup from the pass being a reissue.

The division consisted of:
Luftwaffen-Jäger-Regiment 33
Luftwaffen-Jäger-Regiment 34
Panzer-Jäger-Abteilung Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17
Luftwaffen-Artillerie-Regiment 17 (noted on page 12 of pass)
Luftwaffen-Pionier-Bataillon 17
Aufklärungs-Kompanie Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17
Luftnachrichten-Kompanie Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17
Kommandeur der Nachschubtruppen Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17

Note From Site: As of 1 Nov 1943 Luftwaffen-Artillerie-Regiment 17 had been taken over by the army and renamed Artillerie-Regiment 17 (L), except III. Abt. which became I./Flak-Regiment 20.

Oct 9, 1943 thru June 6, 1944 - Wehrpass notes soldier's unit as Stab I/Flak Regiment 20 (mot.)

June 13, 1944 - Wehrpass repeats soldier's unit as Stab I/Flak Regiment 20 (mot.)

Stab/Flak-Regiment 11 (mot.) and Stab/Flak-Regiment 20 (mot.) joined the 16.Flak division in Mar 1944.

As of 1 Jun 1944 Reg. 20 (mot) is under 16. Flak-Division (Stab/Flak-Regiment 11), formed 22 Feb 1944 in Paris from Stab/11. Flak-Division, organized as follows under Generalkommando III. Flakkorps:

16. Flak-Division (o) at Lille
18. Flak-Brigade (mot.) at Cambrai
19. Flak-Brigade (mot.) at Hertogenbosch

Generalkommando III Flakkorps went into combat 6 Jun 1944 at Normandy with:
Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1 (coorsponds to page 12 of Wehrpass, last two unit entries)
Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 2
Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 3
Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 4
Luftnachrichten-Abteilung 103

Note From Site: Most of the III Korps were destroyed in the Falaise-pocket, and the original Wehrpass was probably lost here. The remains of the corps withdrew to Germany.

EKI & Ground Assault Badge - Noted 4/29/45 as "Gen.Kdo.III" and "Flakkorps" which I believe to be the same unit spelled out over two lines by the same person (Gen.Kdo.III Flakkorps), which the 20th was a part of under Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1, could have been awarded from Normandy campaign. By the end of this time, he could have certainly qualified for the Ground Assault Badge.

Sep 1944 Reg. 20 (mot) is under Generalkommando III. Flakkorps and Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 2 and at Cochem, supporting Heeresgruppe B, under Luftwaffenkommando West.

On 1 Oct 1944, Reg. 20 (mot) is still under Stab/Flak-Sturm-Regiment 2., likely at Düren which is just north of St. Vith.

From site: The Abteilungen are sometimes listed as I. - III./Flak-Sturm-Regiment 2 (which the 20th was under), but this never became official, and the units remained under their old names until the end (which may explain why no more unit entries on page 12 after the June 13 entry).

Nov 1944, the 20th still under Flak-Sturm-Regiment 2 (which is now under 2. Flak-Division) and in the Eifel area, Luftgau XIV.

Dec 1944 2. Flak-Division took part in the Battle of the Bulge, where the 20th is at St.Vith/Eifel.

Apr 1945 at Forst/Niederlausitz - The last entry in the Wehrpass is 4/17/45

Battles:
Orne River & Caen entries - On the 1st of June, records show the 16 Flak Division in Lille, France. All I can tell is that the divison was mobilized and involved in the Normandy invasion defense. The III Korps were destroyed at the Falaise-pocket, which is quite near Caen. Inconclusive, but the unit was in that area at the right time.

Bastogne, St.Vith - The record shows the 20th regiment was involved in the battle at Eifel/St. Vith at the Battle of the Bulge. There is no mention of Bastogne.

Aachen and the Westwall - I see what looks like "westwall" on the pass, but don't see Aachen. It's difficult for me to make out to comment on those battle concerns from warrelics.eu.

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Reflecting on the Wehrpass, there are a couple of things that stand out. First, the awards being 3 in two days is starting to seem like support for the authenticity of the pass. If I were going to fake this, and do all the research I just did to make a few extra dollars, faking different inks and handwritings, it seems silly to put 3 awards in two days so close to the end of the war. That is clearly odd, and I wouldn't want something like that to stand out and make someone question my work. It would be better to try and make up more reasonable dates. And at this point, I'd be wanting to go SS and make real money for it, cause the western front at this period looks like a mess to me, to try and fake correctly .

Another thing that makes me wonder, if the teal blue was the only original parts of the pass, what happened to his activity after 1942? There are other dates in the pass such as on the cover (6.10.44), and in teal on page 1 (6.10.44) whose handwriting matches perfectly the teal unit and activity entries. They would have reissued a Wehrpass in late 1944, but entered no activity for the two years before and the months after. The other possibility is that the whole thing is faked, even the birth certificate that corresponds with the pass, which would seem unusual as well.

It certainly seems like a bad investment, given the questions the entries pose, and even if it's 100% authentic since there are oddities in it. But, if these are post war entries, they were well thought out and researched entries.

[avenger]

Thanks for the comments folks. I appreciate it.

Nobody seems to like this pass, which means it's value is low as a collectible regardless of if it turned out to be authentic or not.

[naxos]

I never said recent fake. Some Wehr passes and Sold books were completed and/or enhanced by the owners after the war - Not that uncommon. The entries I crossed out are suspect. Who knows who entered them and when. It makes this document spurious

[avenger]

I never said recent fake. Some Wehr passes and Sold books were completed and/or enhanced by the owners after the war - Not that uncommon. The entries I crossed out are suspect. Who knows who entered them. It makes this document spurious

Spurious or perhaps even questionable is definitely the key word here for sure, and the only words that matters for valuation I think, unfortunately.

Wish it has been more clear, but such is the process of learning a new hobby.

[naxos]

If one could find supporting evidence - that would change everything - like award documents a Soldbuch or even unit confirming research via the Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt)

[avenger]

Asked seller about the question of authenticity. Their response:

I have got this wehrpass not from a dealer. I was the first, who got it from the family.

It is a Zweitschrift. But I have no more info of this person.

Sometimes, the people themselve added some education and awards in there books, to get more money after the war.

This wehrpass is 100% original. And it make no sense, to fake it, because of the low price.

[Gary T]

The only entries that are 100% not period are the EK1 and the Erdkampfabzeichen. Certainly all the pencil entries are 100% period. That tends to make the unit, weapon and promotion entries also authentic although I can see where Naxos is coming from. The EK2...who knows?

[avenger]

The only entries that are 100% not period are the EK1 and the Erdkampfabzeichen. Certainly all the pencil entries are 100% period. That tends to make the unit, weapon and promotion entries also authentic although I can see where Naxos is coming from. The EK2...who knows?

Thanks for the reply and time looking over this pass.

What's the tip off to you that the EK1 and GAB are bad? Also, how can you tell the pencil entries are good?

I'm still learning about these, so any tips on how to decipher good from bad is greatly appreciated.

[naxos]

The pencil entries start: "An 341 Tagen Gefechtstätigkeit" - This is a like a Diary entry. Not an official Wehrpass entry. - It states that he saw action on 341 days.

[avenger]

That is strange. That would have qualified him for far more than a mere GAB, if that means 341 days of battle and not simply 341 days of combat duty. Sounds odd either way.

Though, are we sure that's what the last word is? I've zoomed in on the penciled part: