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What makes a Soldbuch desirable?

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    What makes a Soldbuch desirable?

    Hi guys,

    I've just been pondering what makes a Soldbuch desirable. Is it the story of the man or the fact that the physical Soldbuch was present during historic moments? What if a soldier experienced years of fighting and was then issued a Zeitschrift because his original was in such poor condition: is the Zweitschrift of lesser, equal or greater value? The soldier was still present during major engagements, but the Zweitschrift wasn't.

    I ask because a few days ago I was contacted by the family of a veteran with whom I was in contact for over a decade. He died last year and I'd made it known that if they ever wanted to sell his Soldbuch, to please contact me first. One thing to bear in mind is that I'd never seen the Soldbuch... the vet talked about it, but never got around to digging it out of a box filed somewhere in his apartment. His family came across it while clearing his residence and now they have offered it to me. I was fully expecting it to be an original Soldbuch, but turns out it's a Zweitschrift dated 30 March 1945. Not many entries in it, just the basics carried over from his original Soldbuch (personal info, current unit, a summary of wounds, decorations).

    Now, I know this veteran's story, he was initially a cavalryman, then commanded a panzer company in 1942, many attacks in Stalingrad and during the encirclement, flown out of the Stalingrad pocket on 22 January 1943, almost certainly on one of the last planes, Italy, Russia 1944, etc, etc. . During our correspondence he provided me with about 50 pages of memories, and boy, he had some cracking good stories. He earned all the usual medals, plus a PAB25.

    So, because I know his story, is this Zweitschrift as desirable as an original? If not, is the desirability – and hence value – in the history witnessed by the actual Soldbuch itself?

    I'm really interested to hear some opinions about this.
    Jason
    Last edited by jmark; 07-28-2014, 02:29 AM. Reason: Fixed typo

    #2
    I think it all comes down to the personal preference of the individual collector. Personally I would view a late war Zweitschrift as worth less than an original issue that had been carried for years. Obviously, if the Zweitschrift is a replacement from 1941 or 1942 then I would hold it in the same esteem as the original as it had still been carried through thick and thin for a long time. Even if the holder was a Knights Cross holder I would expect a late war replacement issue to be worth less than one issued much earlier. For me, you can't beat a salty looking SB.

    But I dare say, there are others that will have a different view and rightly so. There are so many options for collecting TR items such as minty or salty, Wehrpass or Soldbuch, pre-Barbarossa or Luftwaffe only for example that where some see an original issue as the one to have there will be others where it doesn't matter one bit and value wise will happily pay above what others will view the items is worth.

    Just look at Sepp Dietrich's Soldbuch - it is a late war issue with minimal entries and while there are some who would love to have it in their collection there are others that wouldn't want it (money being no object obviously). Compared to that of Mühlenkamp or Manteuffel I know which one I would rather have.

    Comment


      #3
      the desirable soldbuch for me is that what awards the owner got in the war,
      this means i will not buy the soldbuch to the member in s.Pz.Abt.502 or GD, that he only got kvk2 or ek2.
      my deadline is EK1.
      for the single soldbuch i need original issue, or as Hucks216 says it was issued before 1943, unless it is DK or RK soldbuch.
      if the soldbuch comes with grouping, i don't care if it is 1st issue or 2nd issue, surely original issue is the better.

      Comment


        #4
        The book you describe still is extremely desirable and valuable but certainly less so than an equivalent book that was actually in Stalingrad.

        Comment


          #5
          I have never been a lover of replacement books but as mentioned already it depends when it was issued and content.

          If you are after a photo in the Soldbuch pre 1944 then you should only collect Kriegsmarine!

          For 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division it does not matter what awards he had for me as it is the unit I am interested in.....so if the photos is missing or pages missing then I do not mind.....I will not collect documents like this for other units.

          But there is always an exception to any rule and it is it rare of course you will accept what ever condition it is in.

          I have turned down RKT based on the fact they have been replacement and have been written in the same hand.....even though there was a photo wearing his RK. But, times have changed......I no longer see such items on a regular basis as I used to.

          It does not have to have high awards to be desirable...a photo can sway your opinion as he is wearing a camo jacket for example.....each to their own, what you like nobody else might

          Price also determines if it is desirable or not

          /Ian
          Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

          Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

          Comment


            #6
            I collect expecially "stories" of soldiers will go around in Rimini ... units, awards, wounds, places do not have a precedence in my interests ... a history, a nice story first of all .... no problem for a remplacement books, but a Soldbuch with 5-6years of war usually has more news, more signatures, more stamps, more stories .... I like all!!

            Comment


              #7
              I like the connection with the soldier in combat or in the campaign. The fact that the Soldbuch was in the soldier's pocket during all of this is what fascinates me the most. As far as the zweitschrift, it all matters when the it was issued. Most of the connection is purely subjective.
              Last edited by brooksbz; 07-28-2014, 01:53 PM. Reason: clarification

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Jason, Hi all !!

                I collect mainly upon 2 principal Axes : 1) SB from people involved in the Fightings around the place I live 2) High decorated Soldiers

                For 1) I prefer for sure SB which were carried on the Man during the fights. My Advantage is that these Fights took place in November 44. Then, a Zweitschrift from oct.44 is excellent for me !!

                For 2) the question is much more difficult. I hate the Zweitschrift were all awards are stamped one time with only one Signature. The interest of such Books is exactly the contrary : they must have various Stamps, Signatures, and a big Research Potential... that makes actually the Pleasure of collecting. I have some Zweitschrift from mid-War, with 5-6 Awards written and confirmed together. It is not a big problem, if all the following awards (of course the higher one) are individually entered, stamped and signed, these are for me almost so interesting than those opened as the Man started his military career.

                They are for sure exceptions, like usually in the Paper-collection : Sure a fantastic photo in a late Zweitschrift is to be considered. And, what Ian said with Humour is also a serious point : the pricing !!

                there is a very last point : If you turn the pages and feel any Emotion, then it is a good Book and a good addition to your Collection.

                And to help Jason : Jason, you collect Stalingrad. If your Zw. would have been opened just therafter, because the first Issue has been lost there, then I would say : take it. If your Zw. is opened march 45, IMO, do not feel obliged to take it, just if the Price is really matching your lowest Expectation. Lionel.

                Comment


                  #9
                  A Zweischrift wouldn't be the same as the original, simply because it hasn't gone 'all the way'. The only Zweischrift I own is a KIA blood soaked one that was sent to his own parents by mail several years after the war.

                  An aged Soldbuch is perfect. As long as it has readable, complete pages I like it. Wouldn't even mind lose pages.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd have to say Ian has hit the nail on the head....it doesn't have to be....if it's what you collect....it's a question of what does it for you ....to coin a phrase

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A Zweitschrift is definitely not as good IMO especially if so from the heer or Wss.

                      Soldbuch's such as Luftwaffe pilots not quite as much difference as they didn't carry them into battle,
                      One of my favorite pilot soldbuch's is a zweitschrift, but having said that I would much rather it was the original issue book.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think Jason that what should make you feel this Soldbuch very desirable is that you knew the owner personally. You know his story, and the fact that the original Soldbuch is missing is probably part of the story itself. For a document like this I would be eager to pay the family even a higher price than its actual commercial value, and of course I would keep in my collection forever.

                        Thinks are different if I would take a Soldbuch to resell it. In this case what makes it desirable is a mix of conditions, awards, units, and battles the man took part. Sometime a Soldbuch may be interesting also for the signatures it contains (e.g., a coy commander who got the Ritterkreuz).

                        I don't dislike late war Zweitschrift Soldbuch if they can still tell a story. I have one (bought here on WAF) belonged to a paratrooper who fought in Italy. It was issued in 15 april 1945 - very late in the war- at the I Fallschirmkorps recollection point. This date reveal us that the original one was most likely lost or destroyed when the man crossed the Po river during the retreat. At the time most of the bridges were Kaputt and many soldiers had to swim to reach the other side.
                        Last edited by Ironcrown; 07-29-2014, 02:50 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have a few points I look for when I buy a soldbuch.

                          First issue, as Paulus_Gun mentioned: because a Zweitschrift hasn't gone 'all the way'

                          Complet with all pages. Pages lose is no problem. I read a soldbuch as I would read a book, and I wouldn't buy a book with missing pages?

                          Not denaz. I hate it when swastikas are blacked or crossed out.

                          Where dit he saw action. But I think that counts for every soldbuch collector.

                          And he must at least be awarded an EKII or Woundbadge.

                          It all comes down to the personal preference of the individual collector

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by hennep11 View Post
                            I have a few points I look for when I buy a soldbuch.

                            First issue, as Paulus_Gun mentioned: because a Zweitschrift hasn't gone 'all the way'

                            Complet with all pages. Pages lose is no problem. I read a soldbuch as I would read a book, and I wouldn't buy a book with missing pages?

                            Not denaz. I hate it when swastikas are blacked or crossed out.

                            Where dit he saw action. But I think that counts for every soldbuch collector.

                            And he must at least be awarded an EKII or Woundbadge.

                            It all comes down to the personal preference of the individual collector

                            will you buy a soldbuch of panzer unit re-issued in 1943.10 to a DKiG,and GAB50?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by PanzerElite View Post
                              will you buy a soldbuch of panzer unit re-issued in 1943.10 to a DKiG,and GAB50?
                              As Ian said: There is always an exception to any rule and the price must be right.

                              Comment

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