Show your demoted Soldbuch

[Angel Farré]

I am wonder if someone has a Soldbuch for a demoted soldier, I like to see how it was this entered in the Soldbuch.

Angel

[CWP]

Regulations stated that a soldier who was demoted was to be issued a new Soldbuch, I believe. Here is a grouping I used to have: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=573856

[Angel Farré]

That will explained why I have not located one, I see examples of document groups that clearly shows that the soldier was demoted, but no Soldbuch or Wehrpass till now.

Thanks Chris

Angel

[Panzer Rob]

Here's a Soldbuch I have in my collection to a Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abt.12 SdKfz.222 Panzerspähwagen crew member who received the CCC in bronze and EKI, amongst other awards. Notice that on pages 1 and 2 a promotion has been crossed out with "Streichung bescheinigt." written on page 1 and "Keine Beforderung! Streichung bescheinigt." entered on page 2.

I cannot make out the date that the promotion entry was originally made, but the deletion took place on 25.June 1944 and he continued to use this Soldbuch through the end of the war (he was awarded the Kurland arm band in April 1945.) I am not sure if the entry represents a demotion or the deletion of a promotion that was accidentally entered:

[Ian Jewison]

I have a few .........

1. Heer SB + WP.....entries slowly stop after he was demoted indicating new documents were issued.

2. SS SB....entry made that he was demoted from Rottenführer to Schützen. He later was promoted up to Oberscharführer.
Incidentally around the same time he was in hospital with a broken nose, lossed some teeth and had a cut to the back of the head.....fighting?

3. KM SB to a Kapitänleutnant demoted to Matrosen. Entries made from a court and clearly a new SB issued. I received copies of his record from WASt showing he served with the same unit after his demotion.

Those are what I can remember at the moment......don't have them to hand but will scan later.

/Ian

[Angel Farré]

Thanks to all for your information. Now I have a more clear idea about this matter.

Thanks again guys.

Angel

[Ian Jewison]

Here's the Wehrpaß, can not find the Soldbuch at the moment, however every page bears a red X that has an entry.

On page 1 and page 22 the word degradiert (demoted) is written.

Also on page 26 through the court of 73 Inf.Div. from 17.5.1941 loss of rank (Dienstgradverlust).

Now to find the Soldbuch

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Written to front cover and page 1 of the Soldbuch to Oberleutnant zur See Frost:

Rangverlust

The entry is signed by Korvettenkapitän Günther Gelpke as Flottillenchef 44 Minensuchflottille.

Reverse shows: “Ord. Justiz/Kriegsgericht 5” “Justice Department/Court Martial 5”.

Through research I confirmed Herr Frost remained with 44 Minensuchflottille as a Matrosen.

/Ian

[Angel Farré]

Thanks Ian, one more question, the award page is also crossed, is this a sign that he was deprived also fromn his awards?

I think you can be demoted, but not can be stripped from his awards, only if expelled from the Wehrmacht as was done with Fegelein and all the ones involved in the 20 July plot, no? I have seen a group from a KC ho was demoted twice, but retained his awards and also Nugisecks was demoted just after receiving the RK, but not deprived of it.

Thanks

Angel

[Ian Jewison]

Hi Angel,

In the case of the awards, I need to find the Soldbuch he has other awards not mentioned in the Wehrpaß but I forget when he won them. However as mentioned, every page with an entry on in the Wehrpaß has a red X on it...basically to cancel everything.

In certain cases you lose your awards as well. I suppose it depends what you are being court martialled for? Desertion I would say yes and no doubt would end up in front of a firing squad! For punching your commanding officer then probably demoted....for stealing a pig then promoted

Like Frost he was an EK I winner but no other notes in the Soldbuch except Rangverlust.

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Right....found the Soldbuch and this appears to have been in use up to 29.8.1943 at least. So Wehrpaß looks to have been replaced but not the Soldbuch......unless it was post September 1943 but as you can see he rose back up to the rank of Wachtmeister.

I seem to remember readingsomewhere only officers Soldbücher were replaced on the loss of rank.

[Ian Jewison]

As you can see, he was demoted 17.5.1941 but most of his awards were actually after this date.

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Last one that I remember at the moment to SS Oberscharfüher Krüger.

Underneath the opening rank of SS Rottenführer is written SS Mann.

On page 3 the corresponding entry Dienstgradaberkennung - rank withdrawal.

/Ian

[Alfred.R]

realy interesting ,i have never seen befor one

[Admiraal]

Here is one i got.
His promotion got canceled (it was not yet signed in the soldbuch). Why? i don't know.
His Kp.-chef (a Hauptmann) signed for the canceling on the first page.