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Waffen SS Soldbuch Leibstandarte, DKIG, PAB25, CCC silver.....

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    #31
    Ok here's my two cents. To start with, how can he have a leave after he has been discharged by the Wehrbezirk (page 21) This not the correct protocol. Entries on page 25 are fake. The number they use for his Kstr# is from the Ersatz company. You received a new number at each unit and it changes even if you leave to go to another unit and later come back.
    Jeff

    Comment

      #32
      Oh, I forgot, he is not listed as being a German Cross in Gold winner. That alone makes you want to check closer.
      Jeff

      Comment

        #33
        I try follow the evidence in my research. Often new evidence will change my understanding. I have no problem with that. In fact, to disprove my own assumptions is part of my every day work and a healthy dose of self-critique keeps me sharp.

        Have a look at the document below – it supports that a Sturmmann Hans Zschimmer indeed belonged to LSAH 2.Panzer-Gren-Rgt and was awarded (here) on April 20, 1943 the Panzerkampfabzeichen in bronze.
        I have looked at the EK II award lists for April and May 1943 for the 2.Panzer-Gren-Rgt but sofar have not found Zschimmer’s name.

        Now, this is no definitive proof that some of the entries are genuine but it is enough for me to reconsider my conclusion.

        I still think this Soldbuch was heavily messed with but I will retract my former comments until there is more evidence in support or against this Soldbuch.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by naxos; 08-03-2013, 05:14 PM.

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          #34
          Maybe an alternative approach:

          Soldiers awarded such high awards as the German Cross in Gold and Close Combat Clasp in Gold in the final days or weeks of the war, were oftenly known for these awards post-war by their comrades, even though no official paperwork might exist in the archives or their personal papers such as their Soldbücher. (e.g. Karl Menne CCCiG and Werner Kindler in the case of his GCiG, not the CCCiG)

          I have never heard this soldier's name as a holder of the GCiG anywhere though and the LSSAH (1. Pz. Korps) would have remembered him postwar, I'm quite sure.

          I can only speak for the LAH, the unit which has most of my interest and IMO all soldiers who became GCiG holders were somewhat already well-known for their merit and bravery in their units before the actual award.

          The 2. SS-Panzer-Grenadier Regiment "LSSAH" were a special bunch of men.

          Markus

          Comment

            #35
            I've been looking at this since Matthias posted it and IMO it's been fooled with.

            IMHO this guy was serverly wounded at Kharkov 1943 (SWB) and was discharged

            1945.He was one brave guy but never saw action after Kharkov.
            Cheers Steve

            Comment

              #36
              Another strange thing I've found, it's at pages 6-7: in the period 1943-1945 he received the uniform and equipments only one time in 1943

              Comment

                #37
                I mean: he fought hard in the first line for many months, earning a PAB25, an EKI, a DKIG and other decorations, he was even wounded another time and he wore the same clothes all the time, till the end of the war?
                It's very unlikely that the new assignments were not entered in the Soldbuch: there was a lot of free space in it. So IMHO after the entered cloth assignment in 1943 the guy saw a very limited amount of action. Maybe the silver wound badge is the reason: a very severe wound (an amputation, maybe?) that make him unfit for the active duty.

                Comment

                  #38
                  Originally posted by MisterX View Post
                  Please let me know what you meen? He can join with age of 17 in Waffen-SS - so he directly was send to eastfront, like MANY german young soldiers...

                  So where is the problem that he CANT get the eastmedal?
                  Sorry for taking a couple of days to answer your question. Here are my thoughts on it;

                  Born in February 1924
                  He started school in 1930
                  To become a technician he had to have at least completed Realschule = 9 years

                  His gaduation would have been in fall of 1939.

                  Now, if you look at his occupation/profession it reads: Verm. Techniker (Vermessungs-Techniker)

                  To become a surveying technician was three years of schooling and training.

                  The earliest he could have joined the SS would have been the fall of 1942

                  Add a minimum of 3 month of basic training (as an officer candidate more like 6 to 9 month).
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by naxos; 08-05-2013, 06:57 PM.

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Let's have a look at the dog tag

                    Zschimmer's tag is: 2./V SS VT LAH - 214



                    attached find the record of the SS soldier with the tag 2./V SS VT LAH - 224 - This tag was issued in June 1942
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Mathias1703 View Post
                      I think it´s to easy to say that the lazarett entries are Postwar. It is a very nice solodbook with a high value without the last medal entries.
                      It must be a very stupid faker to ruin a book like that!

                      I like to have more opinions. Please have a look at the Lazerett Traunstein stamp under the medal entries and the other stamp one on page 31. Both are maybe the same- The entries are from April 1945 and all was possible in that time. Please don´t write "Postwar" IMO without a reason.

                      I like to have opinions from collectors with a good knowledge about Paperitems like me, thanks.

                      I'm no expert but I have to say that second set of award entries (DKIG, etc.) does not sit very well with me. Can't say for certain if they're original or added post-war, but my gut is leaning towards the latter. Thomas - the friend you got this Soldbuch from - is it by any chance the same friend you got that Soldbuch with the CCC in gold award entry?

                      EDIT: Has anyone been able to ID the signature on those 1945-dated entries???

                      Thanks.
                      Last edited by Panzer Rob; 08-05-2013, 08:58 PM.

                      Comment

                        #41
                        It's on mil321 now - with the guarantee seal for unquestionable originality:

                        http://www.militaria321.com/auktion/...tragungen.html

                        Regards

                        Comment

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Oberbootsmann View Post
                          It's on mil321 now - with the guarantee seal for unquestionable originality:

                          http://www.militaria321.com/auktion/...tragungen.html

                          Regards
                          Is it the same owner on here selling it as original and untouched I guess?

                          If so what is the protocal?

                          Even if it isn't what is the protocal since it has changed hands perhaps?

                          Jock

                          Comment

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Jock Auld View Post
                            Is it the same owner on here selling it as original and untouched I guess?

                            If so what is the protocal?

                            Even if it isn't what is the protocal since it has changed hands perhaps?

                            Jock
                            This is something the seller alone can tell us.

                            Regards

                            Comment

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Oberbootsmann View Post
                              This is something the seller alone can tell us.

                              Regards
                              I guess it does not look good either way?

                              He would be off my Christmas card list!!!

                              Jock

                              Comment

                                #45
                                @Panzer Rob No you was wrong my friend , first I was not a friend from Mathias 1703 and never I sale him a soldbook or Wehrpass

                                Second I buy for long years the German Cross Convolut from him that I show here on estand and by that a many people here have problems you remember ???

                                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=german+cross


                                That I buy from mathias1703 on Miliweb 321 and a many have doubt by the german cross entry , he tell me this time that it comes directley from the family

                                Regards Thomas
                                Last edited by REDVIPER; 09-20-2013, 04:33 PM.

                                Comment

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