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**Matt L** · 10-08-2004, 04:41 PM

Well, it looks authentic enough to me- I see nothing that would make me wonder about it. I'd ask Jean Yves if it's a Fallschirmjäger unit- the 'T' and number make me think it could-well be one. Just FYI, the 'T' is thought to indicate that the soldier received a tetanus innoculation, and the 'O' is his blood group.

Matt

**Gaspare** · 10-09-2004, 12:12 AM

Please guys no offence,, but this tag is 60 years old!?. Ive seen tags that were kept in soldbuchs the entire war not look this nice and with so fresh sharp looking stampings..
Some good things,,well the bloodgroup 'O' is a different stamp. the neck cord hole wear, the T stamp is a nice touch..BUT this tag could be made in 20 min. in experienced hands..
Some ' living history ' guys are quite good at making these tags, and with 4 or 5 years of use/age would convince most of us..
The counterfeiters are leaving SS tags alone now and slowly getting collectors at $40 to $60 a pop for Para, MG, Pz and volunteer tags.OR great finds from Stalingrad!.Unless it came with some good supporting documents or items don't pay alot for any tag.. ,just throwing some thoughts & info out there,,, G.

**Matt L** · 10-09-2004, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Gaspare

Please guys no offence,, but this tag is 60 years old!?.

Sure, why not? I've got a whole bunch of authentic aluminum discs that look this clean- aluminum doesn't corrode readily unless exposed to a harsh environment such as being in the ground. If it's just exposed to air in a room somewhere, I wouldn't expect anything other than a light surface dulling, which is what I see on this one. Heck, it could have also simply been polished by someone in the not-too-distant past; one fellow I buy discs from in Germany always polishes the aluminum ones on the stamp face- he says they sell better

. And as for the clean stamping, that's what one would expect to see if the disc isn't ground dug and corroded, yes? Actually, clean stamping worries me less than bad stamping- ANYONE can do a crappy job...

Now of course you're quite right that when it comes to coded discs it might not be so easy to distinguish an authentic one from one someone made a few years ago- that's when it's time to ask about the source, the price and all that. I agree that if the price is high, there has to be provenance. That having been said, I wouldn't have any trouble whatsoever paying a reasonable price, say 15 Euros, for this one as just a possible Luftwaffe/ Fallschirmjäger unit disc. I've actually acquired ALL my Fallschirmjäger discs that way

They looked good, weren't expensive and I happily found out AFTER I bought them that the numbers corresponded to various FJ units.

I can't say as I've seen any others looking like this one, nor have I seen the letters/numbers elsewhere- and I'm really not very inclined to believe there would be too many 'one-off' fakes coming out.

So far, the non-SS fakes I've seen have all been pretty-much poor to say the least. They wouldn't fool anyone but novice collectors- fortunately. But what's this about 'great finds from Stalingrad'? You're not talking about Vladimir's stuff on ebaY, are you Gaspare?

Matt

**Stijn David** · 10-09-2004, 07:04 AM

ID Disc

Hello,

Thank you both for responding and giving some interesting reflections on this particular disc.

I received the ID Disc from a friend (former glider pilot) as a gift during my last visit earlyer this week. (so there is no need to worry that i did pay big time for it

)

As to convince the doubters amongs us here is the extract from the wearers Soldbuch where the ID Disc numbers, etc ... are entered

Is there a good book out there that does give some info on ID Discs? for me the Glider units are of major importance so i am always looking for info on such Discs

Cordial greetings,

**Gaspare** · 10-09-2004, 09:37 AM

Matt like I said I'm just throwing it out there..If your happy with your tags and this gentleman is also, great.. AL. oxidizes, yes kept nice not so much. Steel wool or polish the tag and you dull out the stampings. You would more than likely still see the spots where the discoloration was anyway.." Exposed to air in a room " but this is a Para or glider tag! Well maybe he was a desk jockey. The cord was put on this tag in the suspension fashion. There is a lot of wear in the holes yet the tag is near mint. Possible? well I guess so because here it is..

Hey if you can get original Para tags for 15 euro please let some of the members know about it , I'm sure they'd like some too..Hell, I'd even take one. Except how you going to prove their good? Hole wear? Unique stamps? Matching them up to units? Even with provenance such as shown here, how easy is it to make a tag that matches a SB or WP? How much does it increase the value with the matching tag?!?

I don't know or care about Vlad or eBay . I mentioned Stalingrad but it could be anywhere, Demjansk, St.Pete, Kharkov. These areas are used for a selling point. Tags " corresponding to various FJ units ",,a good order of battle book or access to the internet and a counterfeiter could make tags for years that came dug cond. or nice cond. right from the area where their supposed to come from..I've seen to many times where good tags are repeatedly shown, then a 'bad' one comes up for sale. Seller just says ' Hey all my other stuff has been good why not this, besides I dug it myself ' Do you want to argue with him? No, just let him keep the piece and hope other collectors do to...

Mr. David , I'm just putting out scenarios and responding ,, no reflection on your pieces. As always you as the buyer has to be happy, that is all that matters.. thanks , G.

**Stijn David** · 10-09-2004, 09:59 AM

ID plate

Hello,

Thank you for your reflections => as said before : i did not pay one cent for it, the tag does come with the original Soldbuch, award documents, awards, etc ... directly from the veteran. All these pieces are a gift from the original wearer towards me.

Cordial greetings,

**Matt L** · 10-09-2004, 04:50 PM

That's really fascinating! So this is a glider unit- nice! So far, I've only ever heard of the 'T' marking on Fallschirmjäger discs, but I suppose that since gliders did crash-land a lot, it would be important to a glider pilot too. It's really great that you have the document as well to prove it's authenticity. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Originally posted by Gaspare

Matt like I said I'm just throwing it out there...

Oh, I know Gaspare- me too... I guess we just disagree is all

Originally posted by Gaspare

.." Exposed to air in a room " but this is a Para or glider tag! Well maybe he was a desk jockey.

Sorry, I meant since the war- of course it was obviously worn, but as I said, I have several discs, one still with it's original cord, that show similar signs of being worn, but are still in quite nice shape. Aluminum is fairly soft so probably didn't take long to show cord wear. I don't find it odd at all to see fairly deep impressions on an aluminum disc from the cord and yet the stamping still clear- especially in this case as it appears to me to have been worn on a chain.

I've never bought a disc actually identified as a Fallschirmjäger unit simply because the prices are high and the authenticity is so hard to prove. Actually, that goes for any interesting or 'special' unit. The reason I mentioned the ones I got was that it was specifically because they looked okay, they were unknown codes and they were inexpensive that I didn't have the immediate wariness that I would have otherwise. If they'd been listed as the units I now know they are, it would have been a COMPLETELY different story- I probably wouldn't have bought any of them.

As for the Stalingrad stuff, I thought you were talking about something specific- there is a fellow who now regularly sells dug discs from Volgograd, and I wondered if you were talking about him. You are, of course, quite correct about the junk coming out of various places in Eastern Europe- I count myself as quite fortunate not to have yet run into anyone trying the switch tactic- throwing in a bad one after building up a reputation with good stuff.

Matt

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