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    #1

    Soldbuch with altered entries?

    Hi,
    recently bought some Soldbuchs. One I think has been altered. It came with accompanying documents which were used to verify the Soldbuch entries. However when I looked at these documents one I believe showed the soldier was transferred from the German Railways to the Military from 1943-1944. How could he have been awarded medals outside this date. The medals include the EK2 and EK1. The entries for these awards look wrong and one has been written over another entry. I bought this book from the estand and supposedly it originated from a well known dealer. Id appreciate if my suspicions could be verified or laid to rest. Firstly the award entries and the service Record which is dated June 1945 after the war but has a 'nazi' stamp which is out of place?
    cheers Robert
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    #2
    Okay now the documents which show the chap was with the Railways when the Soldbuch has him winning awards. I am right in my translation, Im out of my depth and would appreciate any comments.
    Robert
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      #3
      this is the back page of Franz's service record dated Jun 1945 which I suspect is total rubbish. Note his promotions. Note the stamp. How I bought this I dont know guess I thought because it was on Estand and had numerous views it was all good. If someone can prove me wrong please do. I dont collect Soldbuchs only have a couple so have no experience or knowledge.
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        #4
        Without seeing all the pages in the Soldbuch, I would say that the EK II entry is an obvious faked entry as you can still see the original entry at the end of it (although I can't make out what it says). The EK I entry I would say was actually a genuine EK II entry that has been post-war altered to increase the potential value of the Soldbuch. As for the June 1945 dated piece of paperwork, I would say the same thing - it is original but the EK II entry seen on the paper has been squeezed in to validate the faked entry in the Soldbuch while the EK I entry has been altered from a genuine EK II entry.
        You would need to cross reference all the entries on the piece of paper with the entries in the Soldbuch to determine what is and what isn't genuine.
        Section VI on the June 1945 paperwork confirms his link with the railways, as do Sections I & II.
        Last edited by hucks216; 07-17-2013, 08:10 AM. Reason: Additional info.

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          #5
          The single 'Leave' entry dated for mid-1943 on the image you show has a Feldpost Number in the stamp. If that reads 58631 then that belongs to...
          Stab II u. Einheit Artillerie-Regiment 236

          Is there an entry for that unit on either Page 4 or 17?

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            #6
            Post a close-up (please) of section III of the Personalnachweis sheet. All 3 of his awards are entered there. From what I can see from the smaller scans, they re-affirm the awards in the book.

            Also, does the other info on the Personalnachweis match what's in the book?

            best
            Hank

            EDIT: And remember, you have a 7 day, "any reason" right of return for e-stand. If you're not happy, send it back before it's too late.
            Unless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
            ~ Dan Hampton, Viper Pilot

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              #7
              I think the Personalnachweis is a piece of garbage. Why would a 362 ID paper be stamped with a Pz Jäger Abt 525 stamp, let alone still having the swastika in June 1945? The second award was changed and the EK I entry used the same stamp as the Personalnachweis. Nothing matches up.
              Jeff

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                #8
                I see where you are coming from Jeff, but both 362 ID and s.Pz.Jäg.Abt 525 were part of LXXVI Armeekorps of 10 Armee in March 1945 so it is possible that the stamp, or possibly the Personalnachweis, was used as an 'ad-hoc' measure. Why it would still have a swastika though is another matter.
                Seeing more pages of the Soldbuch would help greatly in clearing it up one way or the other.

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                  #9
                  I would really like to know if this soldbuch is good with a fake entry or worse than that so here are the images that will help determine this.
                  thanks Robert
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                    #10
                    more Soldbuch pages,
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                      #11
                      another page from the Soldbuch and a closeup of Section III from the Personalchweis. Any other pages needed please let me know.
                      thanks Robert
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                      Last edited by RobertCOUTTS; 07-17-2013, 08:16 PM. Reason: change image

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                        #12
                        ...I also did not have clear ideas about calligraphy of EK on page 22

                        but the "Personalnachweis" of 362ID-525Pz.Jg.Abt. is correct, even in stamp with the swastika used after the surrender, and punt in the Rimini enklave in June 1945...... I have a similar certificate in the lot of an officer of the same unit:
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                          #13
                          ................
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                            #14
                            ...... In the Rimini Enclave (the war prison camp on the adriatic cost in Italy between Rimini and Cesenatico) in the climate and the treatment of prisoners (which in the prison camp they directly administered every thing) was very soft and very different from other german lagers outside Italy ...
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                            Last edited by mufasa; 07-17-2013, 09:55 PM.

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                              #15
                              The dates and the signatures on page 22 are all original but the entry on July 15, 1943 has been erased and an EK II award written over.

                              The original EK II award was changed into an EK I award. The man received the EK II on April 29, 1945 not an EK I.

                              It would be interesting to find out what was written originally for the July 15 entry.


                              Too bad
                              Last edited by naxos; 07-17-2013, 11:29 PM.

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