Marinefrontspange in SILBER

[Ludwig]

Has anyone ever seen an original Marinefrontspange (Naval front clasp) in Silber/Silver?

[Thomas Bendixen]

Nope, did they excist? Do you have one

Kr. Thomas

[Ludwig]

No, I don´t have one, but an entry in a Soldbuch!

[AndyC]

Havent seen any


Andy

[JAndrew]

Ludwig,
That is very interesting! I wonder how many other entries like that exist? I think it is unfortunate but true that soldbuchs are generally ignored by most collectors yet some contain some very interesting secrets like the one you refer to in this post.

My understanding is that this award was never officially produced in any grade during the war. I am not even aware of a prototype existing like the K-verband frontspange prototype but those with more knowledge than I may correct me. To me the only wartime pieces are those hand made pieces and they have all been various shades of brass/bronze that I have seen. I take it that you were not able to question the sailor whose soldbuch this is to see if he had an award of some sort?

Of course I am sure that some faker will now come up with a "rare" hand made silver award.

So this brings up a question in my mind. I have seen post war pieces but have never been clear if these are just out and out fakes or are they "57" awards? I see them listed with approved post war awards on web sites but have never seen in writing that these were actual award pieces. The reason I ask is that I see them in all 3 grades of bronze, silver and gold. So if they are official it would make me think that all 3 types were awarded even if not issued, otherwise why make them?

Any other thoughts or opinions on this?
JAndrew

[Tom B]

57 S&L issues.....

Ludwig,
That is very interesting! I wonder how many other entries like that exist? I think it is unfortunate but true that soldbuchs are generally ignored by most collectors yet some contain some very interesting secrets like the one you refer to in this post.

My understanding is that this award was never officially produced in any grade during the war. I am not even aware of a prototype existing like the K-verband frontspange prototype but those with more knowledge than I may correct me. To me the only wartime pieces are those hand made pieces and they have all been various shades of brass/bronze that I have seen. I take it that you were not able to question the sailor whose soldbuch this is to see if he had an award of some sort?

Of course I am sure that some faker will now come up with a "rare" hand made silver award.

So this brings up a question in my mind. I have seen post war pieces but have never been clear if these are just out and out fakes or are they "57" awards? I see them listed with approved post war awards on web sites but have never seen in writing that these were actual award pieces. The reason I ask is that I see them in all 3 grades of bronze, silver and gold. So if they are official it would make me think that all 3 types were awarded even if not issued, otherwise why make them?

Any other thoughts or opinions on this?
JAndrew

You are correct about fakes out there. S&L produced all three grades for post war wear, not knowing if any silver & gold were actually awarded during the war. Rudolf Souval also made a post war clasp & have been passed off as "original" many times. Most serious collectors know that none but home made were ever worn during the war. Tom

[Tom B]

Must add a comment ....

I must add this comment to what I posted earlier......Many photos exist of Bundesmarine members wearing their S&L made postwar badges, but I have never seen a Silver type in those photos, just bronze. These official postwar made badges are of a high quality and pretty hard to find. Tom

[Martin W]

Of the documents i have seen in regards to the Marinefrontspange, all mention the award was issued in bronze,i have one myself.
Silver and gold grades may have been in the planning stages before the war ended ?

Quite a revelation,and i would love to see this entry in a Soldbuch for a silver grade spange if you do not mind showing it Ludwig.



Many thanks,Martin.

[Ludwig]

Of the documents i have seen in regards to the Marinefrontspange, all mention the award was issued in bronze,i have one myself.
Silver and gold grades may have been in the planning stages before the war ended ?

Quite a revelation,and i would love to see this entry in a Soldbuch for a silver grade spange if you do not mind showing it Ludwig.



Many thanks,Martin.

I will post some photos here. Just give me a few more days. I have been away for a short vacation

[Ludwig]

Last entry:
Vorgeschalgen zur Marinefrontspange in Silber
(recommended for the Naval front clasp in silver).

[JAndrew]

Ludwig,
Very nice and very interesting!
JAndrew

[Martin W]

Thanks for posting this Soldbuch entry Ludwig.

As J mentioned,very nice and very interesting and i would presume a very rare entry.

The entry appears to be dated "II 45".

I wonder if this is for Nov . 1945.??

Thanks,Martin.

[Mike Kenny]

Playing devil's advocate, and admitting I only have a basic familiarisation with TR documentation, I find the use of different pens and different handwriting styles for the date and the award information unusual. Note: I am ONLY talking about the critical 5th award entry lines - NOTHING to do with the difference in handwriting compared to the first 4 award entries.

All the entries I can think of in Wehrpass/Soldbuch that I have handled (as said, admittedly not that many) have an award entry in the same pen (ink) and hand (ie date and details). They may have been signed off by someone else, but the main text is consistent for each individual award/entry. Again, having different hands make entries on different dates is not unusual - pretty common (unless the doc is a sp ?zweitschift? - second copy - up to the point of re-issue).

Given the award in this case, I would question the entry.

Maybe dedicated document guys can comment further?

Regards
Mike

PS to Martin's comment which popped up while I was writing, I would say no, the date is Roman numerals and therefore February, not November.

[Martin W]

Some interesting observations Mike.

Perhaps this thead could be moved to the "paper" forum for additional comments?

As a novice in regards to Soldbuch's,etc i would certainly like to see more comments in regards to the entry.

Regards,Martin.

[Mike Kenny]

Moved for comments from document specialists - with a permanent redirect from us interested badge guys!

Regards
Mike