cost of wehrpass VS soldbuch

[Radcollector]

Hello,

Im hopeing someone can explain to me the reason why soldbuchs cost more than wehrpass for the most part?for example i had a person that offered me a wehrpass and a soldbuch from the same man,a pionere that served in Russia and in the west after 1944-the wehrpass was oustanding with many unit entries and alot of battle entries,the things i look for when im buying a wehrpass-he wanted $50 for the wehrpass and $75 for the soldbuch!they have basically the same information and the wehrpass is of better quality material wise and is in my opinion more attractive than a soldbuch-another example-I went to a show here in NC last weekend and the same was true,I found 2 outstanding wehrpass (1 for $30 and 1 for $50)with award entries (the $50 had 5 awards listed!)many units and battle entries-I didnt see a soldbuch for under $100 even from the same dealer that sold me a great wehrpass for $50!!I guess thats why i only have 1 soldbuch (this was given to me by Angel!!)I dont understand this at all,I see plenty of people on this forum that collect wehrpass so im guessing that they arent less desireable than a solduch so what is the reason for this?any ideas/opinions?

[CSP]

Yancy:
I believe that since the Soldbuch was actually carried by the soldier, it tends to be seen as worth more - even given similar information being entered. By being a set of personal papers, it was updated within the company/unit by members of the unit and not some personnel nug sitting back in the Wehrkreis HQ. It may be considered as a bit more rare, since KIA, WIA and POW Soldbuchs would have a greater possibility to be lost.

[Gary T]

Yancy:
I believe that since the Soldbuch was actually carried by the soldier, it tends to be seen as worth more - even given similar information being entered. By being a set of personal papers, it was updated within the company/unit by members of the unit and not some personnel nug sitting back in the Wehrkreis HQ. It may be considered as a bit more rare, since KIA, WIA and POW Soldbuchs would have a greater possibility to be lost.

A correction - the wehrpass was held by the company headquarters in the field and were, for the most part, completed by the company clerk in the field. That is why you can find KC\DKiG winners signatures in wehrpasses as well as soldbuchs. If you have the GD book God, Honor, Fatherland by Thomas McGuirl and Remy Spezzano look on page 11 at the picture of the company clerk in his tent. The box on the bottom right is full of wehrpässe.

[Radcollector]

A correction - the wehrpass was held by the company headquarters in the field and were, for the most part, completed by the company clerk in the field. That is why you can find KC\DKiG winners signatures in wehrpasses as well as soldbuchs. If you have the GD book God, Honor, Fatherland by Thomas McGuirl and Remy Spezzano look on page 11 at the picture of the company clerk in his tent. The box on the bottom right is full of wehrpässe.

Hello,

thanks for the reponses,Scott your theory does make sense,that does bring up another point that i forgot to mention in my first post-the fact that soldbuchs were carried by the soldier usually means they are in worse shape than wehrpass,wich i would think would effect value?

[CSP]

Gary:
You are correct and I typed before thinking itthrough, so thanks for the quick correction. I had been thinking that the Wehrpaß was created at the Wehrkreis - which is true. It, in fact, followed a soldier through his service at the administrative unit level. To add more information to back up Gary as well as to answer Yancy, Emilie Caldwell Stewart's book on the Wehrpaß from 1994 says in her intro:

"Generally, Wehrpasses are found in better condition than Soldbuchs. Unlike Soldbuchs, they were not in a soldier's possession while he was on active duty. They remained in a unit office and were transferred with a soldier from unit to unit, though not in his possession."

In any case, the book received less wear and tear because it was a unit record versus a personal paper I would suspect. An administrative unit would not necessarily be right up at the front, but likely behind it or in the location of a Feld Ersatz unit.

We do a similar thing in the US Army still today with respect to maintenance of records...and when I move from unit to unit, the only time I touch my field file is when I sign out...then I must immediately turn it in upon arrival at my new duty station. If I have a new award, my servicing "field" (actually it remains in garrison) personnel unit is the lowest level that can make such an entry in to my records and I have to show orders to that effect (ie, and 'award document').

Yancy, Stewart also says:

"Most who collect Wehrpasses do so because the Wehrpass contains more information about the holder than does the Soldbuch. A Wehrpass was begun when a man registered for the draft. A Soldbuch started the day the man was drafted. For collectors who like to focus on battles or campaigns, only the Wehrpaß has those listed."

Personally, I prefer the Soldbuch because it was a personal document. Always in worse condition, no doubt, but I believe anything that can be tied directly to the user is generally going to command more value.

Price, naturally will vary according to unit and rank and arm of service, too.

[Tor]

My opinion! maybe not worth 1 cent but .....

There are more personal information in the soldbuchs I have. Much easier to trace the history. First of all that nearly all payments are stamped with the company stamp, and the feldpost number.

[Edward]

Yancy,

To answer your question directly. Both WP /SB should be sold as a set. To sell them seperately is no different than the breaking up any other type of doc group. Imo, if you do buy, try to purchase both.

Without knowing what was in the Soldbuchs that the dealer was selling at the show for no less than $100, Imo a fair opinion cannot be made.

Congrats. Sounds like you bought two nice WP's at the show for your collection.

[Radcollector]

Yancy,

To answer your question directly. Both WP /SB should be sold as a set. To sell them seperately is no different than the breaking up any other type of doc group. Imo, if you do buy, try to purchase both.

Without knowing what was in the Soldbuchs that the dealer was selling at the show for no less than $100, Imo a fair opinion cannot be made.

Congrats. Sounds like you bought two nice WP's at the show for your collection.

Hello,

I will probably end up sticking to collecting wehrpass.I like the battle entries-it works out good for me i guess that wehrpass are the cheaper of the two Edward I would have bought the wehrpass and soldbuch together,I wasnt offered the soldbuch from a collector untill nearly a year after i bought the wehrpass and by that time I had sold teh wehrpass to another collector,I dont understand why he sold them like that,maybe he thought he could get more money selling them seperate-

[Larrister]

Hello,

I will probably end up sticking to collecting wehrpass.I like the battle entries-it works out good for me i guess that wehrpass are the cheaper of the two Edward I would have bought the wehrpass and soldbuch together,I wasnt offered the soldbuch from a collector untill nearly a year after i bought the wehrpass and by that time I had sold teh wehrpass to another collector,I dont understand why he sold them like that,maybe he thought he could get more money selling them seperate-

People tend to forget that the local Wehrkreis also issued a Wehrstammbuch for each military member. It was updated during a soldier's service and contains much the same information as a Wehrpass plus each one had a Wehrstammkarte insert (military registry page), Polizeibericht (police report), Aufenthaltsmeldung (travel stop report) and medical report. I don't see much discussion in forums about these very interesting documents.

Best regards
Larrister

[JeremyJ]

Themes

I would agree that with regards to personal documentation, this is an interesting discussion. It is certainly fair to say that both pieces of documentation (SB/WP) hold specific entries which supplement the overall "picture" of the soldiers service. It should be noted that the obtaining of both the Soldbuch and Wehrpas should, in my opinion, be considered somewhat rare. I have been collecting documentation for 20+ years and even at that small amount of years have only a minority of groups which consist of both SB/WP. Though probably a known fact, one form of personal documentation typically ended up w/ the war records office (Deutsche Dienstelle ) in Berlin. As noted getting both is ideal but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for both.

Jeremy

People tend to forget that the local Wehrkreis also issued a Wehrstammbuch for each military member. It was updated during a soldier's service and contains much the same information as a Wehrpass plus each one had a Wehrstammkarte insert (military registry page), Polizeibericht (police report), Aufenthaltsmeldung (travel stop report) and medical report. I don't see much discussion in forums about these very interesting documents.

Best regards
Larrister

[JeremyJ]

themes

Larrister -

My apoligize for not responding directly to your posting. It is true that the Wehrstammbuch is a much underrated or at best under collected piece of documentation for German soldiers, which basically represents a carbon copy of the Wehrpas but at a later date. I suspect what happens with collectors, myself included, and has been noted in the running text, is that the soldbuch was there "in the ****", it was with the soldier during the engagement which lends a level of somehow being there or at least as close as one could be. A Wehrstammbuch though an inadimate object languished in the relative security of the recruiting office.

Interestingly enough Luftwaffe flying personal did not carry SB on missions, otherwise these would be among the most rare.....those boys did take some serious losses.

Jeremy

People tend to forget that the local Wehrkreis also issued a Wehrstammbuch for each military member. It was updated during a soldier's service and contains much the same information as a Wehrpass plus each one had a Wehrstammkarte insert (military registry page), Polizeibericht (police report), Aufenthaltsmeldung (travel stop report) and medical report. I don't see much discussion in forums about these very interesting documents.

Best regards
Larrister

[Larrister]

Hi Jeremy

You are correct when you say that soldbuchs are more desirable to collectors.
They were carried by the soldiers throughout their military service and were carried into battle but a lot of them tend to be in poor condition (especially the early ones) and hard to read making research and translation difficult.
That is why wehrpass and wehrstammbuchs are so valuable for research.
They tend to be in good condition.
If one can find a soldbuch and wehrpass or even a soldbuch and wehrstammbuch combination to the same man then research is much easier.
I know of at least one militaria site that is selling combinations of both at the moment.

Best regards
Larrister