Battle Damage to Soldbuch?

[GOTZVONB]

Battle damage to soldbuch?

I agree about the price of the soldbuch group. That's a very good price, and it sounds like an interesting group of docs + the dog tag. I wouldn't care if there was battle damage or not, the price is definitely fair.

Best regards,

Tom

[Edward]

He was drafted from a transportation unit into one of the late-war blocking divisions sent into the defense of West Prussia. In this case ID 542. No problems with the group.

At the current exchange rate it's about $170 US. Ask what the sellers mail costs are and do not forget about the Paypal fee too. Just something to consider.

Soldbuch's that look like they have been run over by a T-34 along with countless other items with that supposed made at Stalingrad look sometimes fire the imagination. Would suggest if you are so inclined to buy, buy the item for what it is. In this case a Soldbuch with a chunk out of it.

[Panzer Rob]

IMHO, the damage to your docs is either rodent or bug chews, not battle damage. I've owned a few books that had battle damage, and all of them had blood stains on the covers or pages, even from a very tiny piece of shrapnel. It would add to the value of the soldbuch if it was battle damage, as some collectors really like books with shrapnel or bullet holes, but in this case, I think that the book was damaged while in storage

Best regards,

Tom

I disagree.

Look at the creases which extend from the damaged area into the book. Unless the offending rodent impacted the Soldbuch at 1000+ FPS, I'd have to say that this is the tell-tale sign of damage caused by shrapnel.

Have a look at just one of my Soldbücher with almost identical damage, in this case a Soldbuch to a Gefreiter who was killed on the Cotentin Peninsula in Normandy on 20.June 1944. Check out the images in posts 29, 30 and 31; Notice how the force of the impact from the bullet caused a tear which extended into the pages of the book and left a very distinct crease/mark:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...andy+KIA+Story

All of the other battle damaged Soldbücher I own and have examined exhibit the exact same characteristics.

Furthermore, it is incorrect to state that damage such as that on the Soldbuch in question would have been caused by something other than a bullet or shrapnel (i.e. damage caused during combat) simply due to the lack of any blood. Who's to say that the soldier's tunic wasn't hanging on a vehicle, clothesline or tree branch when an artillery round impacted nearby and sent shrapnel flying into it, damaging the Soldbuch which was in one of the pockets? It's common knowledge that AFV crews sometimes stored their helmets and personal gear on the outside of their vehicles which would get peppered by shrapnel from enemy fire during combat. Just because there isn't any blood certainly does not mean that the damage wasn't caused during combat.


Rob

[GOTZVONB]

Battle damage to soldbuch?

I will gladly withdraw my comment about this soldbuch after viewing Rob's soldbuch. It's most likely a battle-damaged book, and I do recall a soldbuch that I owned many years ago, a LW em drafted into the 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. GvB that had shrapnel damage on the top part of the spine, with no traces of blood on the covers or pages, so your point is well made. I hope that you can add this interesting doc group to your collection.

Best regards,

Tom

[JUNGCO]

I don't know why the type of damage is so important but that's just me. Some of the other documents are travel documents (basically military train tickets)

[Tim DC]

That is interesting, and I understand that blood theory. But I feel like there are a few exceptions to this.

No, I didn't imply there should be blood on each and single battle damaged Soldbuch; as Rob told there were numerous occasions when the SB was not kept with the owner. It's just a form of extra proof when you see it.

I was referring more to the way your Soldbuch is damaged, it looks a bit 'clean' and regular shaped and I remain sceptic. Rob makes some rightly comments but I wouldn't say a rodent could not cause any creases when he bites off part of the booklet. I'm no biologist but it's hard to imagine he would bite through in one, clean cut without leaving any marks on the remaining paper.

This one is hard to judge but you could easily say that each and every Soldbuch which has been linked to from this thread looks more convincing. I also retain my opinion that a link between the damage on the Soldbuch and the wound entered would be very unlikely, due to the fact that he probably (as there's no way to tell for sure) would have been given a Zweitschrift with this kind of damage. For the same reason, I am curious to see what the last date entered in this Soldbuch would be.

[Lt. Martin]

The last entry that can find in the book itself is 2-5-45. This was a Heimaturlaub entry, meaning "home leave."

I agree with Tim on the issue of this soldbuch being not clearly having shrapnel damage. In the other books, there seems a cleaner cut surface near the damage.

Thanks for your comments Rob, here are a few pictures that show exactly what Rob is talking about, the creases and rips.

I noticed something interesting on the last leave entry page, other than the latest date. There is a rip that took out a small section near the 45 (it is circled). It looks to me like the person who wrote this entry avoided the break.

Do you see what I am talking about?


Thanks, this is very informative, keep posting if you have ideas/opinions.
Swayne Martin

[Lt. Martin]

Does that change date change anything?

Thanks,
Swayne

[CWP]

I have a pet rabbit. She loves chewing through anything but especially magazines and books. This looks just like her work, creases and all. It doesn't take a lot of force to crease paper and card stock. For me this is rodent damage.

[Tim DC]

I noticed something interesting on the last leave entry page, other than the latest date. There is a rip that took out a small section near the 45 (it is circled). It looks to me like the person who wrote this entry avoided the break.

I really don't see anything like that. Perhaps it's just me, but it looks like the entries were made prior to the damage and part of the stamp below the signature has disappeared because of the damage. So... was he hit on his way home during the final days of the war, or is it indeed post-war damage? I'll stick to my opinion.

[Edward]

This looks like a personal account which may give a lead into the rodent damage theory.

peter_rabbit_1.jpg

[Lt. Martin]

Chris Pitmann, can you please post a picture when you get the chance of any damage that your rabbit has done to paper. I would be curios to compare the two pictures.

Thanks,
Swayne

[Jean-Loup]

I think a lot of the people here are commenting without actualy looking at the details of the damage.

My opinion is that this is probably NOT rodent damaged; but shrapnel damage, due to the tears that extend from the damaged area. Rodent damage does not have these caracteristics; battle damage does. (see illustration below)
The lack of blood prooves nothing, as such wounds often bleed very little externaly, and thick cloths could prevent blood from reaching the Soldbuch anyhow. The Soldbuch may well have been in a bag or somewhere else when it was hit anyways.

JL

[Lt. Martin]

I am getting more pictures of more pages in the soldbuch from the seller. Hopefully this will help decision making.

Also, I am getting pictures of the back cover.

Thanks,
Swayne

[Eric JB]

I am with Jean-Loup on this booklet, "the tears that extend from the damaged area".

To me it is a battle damaged Soldbuch.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan