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**mufasa** · 06-06-2010, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Frontalschaden View Post

Hello

IMO the H stands for Heer

Best regards, Fronti

thanks Fronti!!!!!

**Simon H** · 09-27-2010, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by mr.dogtag View Post

Funny, I have recently bought a US M-1940 POW tag with following inscription:
RUSS JOSEF
OBERGEFREITER
81-SP- 161892 H

any idea what can SP go for. C'mon it can't be Spanish....

I've also got a Spanish POW dogtag in my own collection, found in Berlin!! As yours Mr Dogtag my owner was also captured in N.Africa. I'm going to add this and other similar ones to my site shortly.

I'd also been curious by the nationality of this "Axis" soldier. I think Fronti has be best answer!

**landsknechte** · 12-14-2010, 01:33 AM

I've got a messkit that has been heavily worked over with "trench art" by the Austrian soldier that it once belonged to. (He scratched the Austrian national coat of arms on the front of it, which seems a reasonable clue.) A number (1261495) was inscribed on the inside of the handle. Does anyone recognize a POW numbering system that might belong to?

**Simon H** · 12-14-2010, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by landsknechte View Post

I've got a messkit that has been heavily worked over with "trench art" by the Austrian soldier that it once belonged to. (He scratched the Austrian national coat of arms on the front of it, which seems a reasonable clue.) A number (1261495) was inscribed on the inside of the handle. Does anyone recognize a POW numbering system that might belong to?

Hi Landsnechte!

The number 1261495 is literally the sequential number that this man was given, there is no "code" or hidden significance to this number. What you require is the rest of the sequence, if it is shown, somewhere on the mess kit.

As already mentioned in earlier posts, the "theatre" that the man was captured in is crucial. Unless you can locate evidence of this then it's difficult to say more about the man. If there is a date on the mess kit, of perhaps the day he was captured then this can help. Can you post ant photos? I'm sure others are curious to see you item.

Kind Regards,
Simon.

**landsknechte** · 12-15-2010, 03:30 PM

#1

Attached Files

**landsknechte** · 12-15-2010, 03:31 PM

#2

Attached Files

**landsknechte** · 12-15-2010, 03:32 PM

#3

It also came with a handmade spoon.

Attached Files

**Simon H** · 12-16-2010, 03:31 AM

Thanks for posting the pictures, it's a nice item. Indeed there's nothing more that can be said about where the owner was caught, although perhaps one might construe that as the mess can was originally apple green in colour rather than tan that "maybe" he was taken POW in Europe rather than in N. Africa or Italy. But to be honest that rule is not a hard and fast one. Have you tried searching for his surname anywhere?

It's even possible that he did not return to Austria but sought out a new life in Canada or USA! Nice items to own!

Kind Regards,
Simon.

**landsknechte** · 12-16-2010, 04:20 AM

I haven't been able to uncover anything of use. Most of the search hits come back to people living in Austria, but nobody with any obvious connection. Zilch through the Volksbund or the American SSDI search. The seller that I purchased this from is based in Austria, so I suspect he probably did make it home. It was a bit of an unexpected treasure, as the photographs were of such poor quality that I had no idea it had any engraving other than the mountain scene until I opened the box.

**Simon H** · 12-16-2010, 05:10 AM

Ah, OK thanks for mentioning where it came from. The more owners an item passes through the less likely you are of being able to find out its history. Still good to have the tin and photos together. I also noticed that it had what looks like a tunic button attached to the side by the handle!

**landsknechte** · 12-16-2010, 04:08 PM

Standard tunic button, held on by wire. Perhaps to allow it to be hung from a buttonhole?

**Simon H** · 12-17-2010, 03:45 AM

Thanks. Interesting hypothesis, could well be possible. Nice set of items. Thanks for sharing!

**David Lenk** · 12-30-2010, 07:12 AM

Interesting. My granfather's does not seem to follow this logic

His number was 81 J 244 397

He was German and captured on the Nettuno front.

Regards
David

Originally posted by Frontalschaden View Post

Hello

Do you mean the "normal" POW number ?

Here is the code:

For example: 31 G 822287

First number group (31) is the place of capture (theatre of war):

1 - Eastern Defence Command
2 - Greenland Base Command
3 - Western Sector, Grimson Project
4 - Eastern Sector, Grimson Project
5 - Western Defence Command
6 - Central Defence Command
7 - Southern Defence Command
8 - Northwest Service Command
21 - Caribbean Defence Command
22 - U.S. Army Forces South Atlantic
31 - European War Theater (Frankreich, Belgien, Luxemburg, Deutschland)
41 - Hawaiian Department
42 - U.S. Army Forces in South Pacific Area
51 - Commander-inChief, Southwest Pacific Area
61 - U.S. Army Forces China, Burma, India, Forward Echolon
62 - U.S. Army Forces China, Burma, India, Rear Echolon
71 - U.S. Army Forces in the Middle East
72 - U.S. Army Forces in Central Africa
81 - North Africa

The Letter (G) is the nationality of the prisoner:

G = German
I = Italian
A = Austrian
J = Japanese

The last number is the number of the prisoner. In this case it is the 822287th german prisoner which became POW at the European War Theater.

Best regards, Fronti

**Mills87** · 07-31-2011, 12:03 PM

Hi, 81) is not just for North Africa, but also for the Italian front.

This is my latest purchase, the soldier was captured in Italy and was interned in Rimini.

**Simon H** · 08-01-2011, 06:53 AM

[QUOTE=Mills87;4784109]Hi, 81) is not just for North Africa, but also for the Italian front.

This is my latest purchase, the soldier was captured in Italy and was interned in Rimini.QUOTE]

Hi Mills87,

Quite right. Both Italy and North Africa can be considered as being in the Mediteranean Theatre of Operations.

I have attempted to crystalise the information and examine tags worn by captured enemy forces on the page below:
http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk/page62N.htm

Kind Regards,
Simon.

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