SS - Polizei ID...

[Hundestaffel]

T.K. and AJ:

Graham's knowledge and expertise in this area (of which few can match, even fewer can better) has narrowed this ID down to one or two strong possibilities. This ID is a 100% period produced, original.

If you would like further explanation in regards to the use / history of such an ID, please contact Graham directly through a PM.

"Hundestaffel"

[AJ]

Hi,

I don't doubt that Graham is #1 on this field, he proberly is the man to ask.
But even experts may sometime be wrong. Please mind that almost every week, one or more pieces on Niemann's page are pointed out as repros!

The Ausweiss may very well be original, I just pointed out, that the the "SS - Polizei" on the cover looked quite strange and the fact that they made a polizei Ausweiss for a member of a biological warfare unit, doesn't make much sence.
I may be wrong and if any one would like to pay 500 Euros + for the piece and is happy with that - that's great with me.

On the other hand, I would love to see one originally filled out with photo, stamps ect. As far as I know, no such piece ever turned up so far !

AJ

[Jon. H]

I can post the pm i got from ghanson? he gave me a lot of info about it that convinced me that the Document is Original.

"Rudolf Souval"

[SiPo]

As I have previously stated in private emails to the owner, this ID certainly is an enigma?

I too find the title unusual, but not entirely impossible, and I am still currently researching this piece.

It is entirely possible that it is some form of ID associated with Amt VD2, of the Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei (KTI). This department undertook research and analysis into all aspects of bacterial, biological, chemical and botanical issues.

The other puzzling thing is the Reichskommissariat Ukraine connection? It is also possible that there was a specific, expert bacterial research facility or department that existed in the Ukraine and which was brought under the wing of the SiPo, but this is pure conjecture on my part. It is , however, documented fact that the Germans undertook vast amounts of experimentation into bacterial and biological matters with a view to utilizing these in chemical warfare, with Tabun and Sarin gas springing to mind.

There was also an offshoot agency of Amt VD2 used for crime prevention and detection, the Kriminalbiologisches Institut der SiPo, which had existed since 1937. It's staff were mostly police doctors and medically trained staff. This Amt collected samples, data and maintained indexes of all anti-social criminal groups, and it seems that many functions of these two Institutes overlap.

Wherever deemed necessary advisory personnel trained by the Institute were attached to regional Kripo HQ's, so it is entirely possible that some were attached to one of the KdS within the BdS Ukraine. That said, I would expect any form of ID associated with these institutes to be stamped and issued from the main KTI HQ in Berlin.

I have never confessed to being an expert in this field and, like most people, I have got things wrong in the past and no doubt will get things wrong in the future. However, IMO this ID along with it's puzzling features, shows all the hallmarks of an original piece.

[PBR]

Hello ,


I would just point that and ausweis named to a "Kriminalbiologisches Institut der SiPo"-similia member would have a value far higher than 500 euros.............
A very common WSS blank Soldbuch would cost you 300 euros.

And anyway I'm still concerned with that "SS-Polizei"on the cover.
Just my 2 cents.

[SiPo]

I would just point that and ausweis named to a "Kriminalbiologisches Institut der SiPo"-similia member would have a value far higher than 500 euros.............
A very common WSS blank Soldbuch would cost you 300 euros.

It is hard to put a value on something that is not often found as there is nothing to compare it to. At the end of the day, the ID is blank and condition is not great. Unfortunately, rare does not equal valuable in a lot of cases. Also, this ID will probably only appeal to a certain group of collectors. Had this ID been filled in, it would be a different story. I also think that different collectors have ther own perception of what is common or not. I for one do not think blank SS Soldbuch are very common, as opposed to wound badges and Hindenburg crosses.

And anyway I'm still concerned with that "SS-Polizei"on the cover.
Just my 2 cents.

Again, it is unusual but not enough to condemn it entirely. This ID exhibits the signs of a genuine Reichsdruckerei produced document.

Just my 2 cents.

[PBR]

Hello G.,

I respect you since you are the well known SS-docs master of this forum and I have always had a good opinion about you and about your comments.
I think anyway that a wannabe ultra rare SS ausweis like this would cost more than that, even if blank, and you know this since is blank, yes, but is ultra-rare.
(I strongly suspect that if I would ask you if you would pay 1000 euros for this ausweis your answer would be yes...am I wrong?).

Not sayin' that's a fake but I'm still concerned about the "SS-Polizei" print, I need to find some proof to belive it (and anyway, as pointed out by AJ, the font is the very same of the SS-Polizei cuffband...).

Seems to me that the Kdr.d.SD.u.SiPo font is a bit different and darker than the rest of the print: maybe just the images?

Thanks

[SiPo]

Hi T.K,

I think the darkness of the wording is down to the fact that it is in bold.

I do like the ID but I am afraid I would not pay anywhere near that kind of money ...even if it was filled in and mint. For that price I could by myself half a Gestapo soldbuch!

[PBR]

Hi Hanson,

I paid 3.500 euros for a ultra-mega-iper-rare WSS Soldbuch, and I'm actually happy with that.
Everything stays in how much you want an item I guess.