Soldbuch Luft transfered to SS Help needed

[Aisne1917]

Hello,

I need some big help to understand the history of this guy! I basicaly see he was luft then transfert to the Das Reich, but there is lot of writing I can not understand! For exemple in the thing he was given 30 ??? munition. Also on other pages I am unable to figure out the writting :-(
Is it common to see transfert like this? Is it part of personal choice or was forced?

Sadly page 21/22 is missing.




















Thanks for any help that you can give :-)

[Aisne1917]

Hello,

No one can help me on this :-(
I will try to add some more pics tonight if it helps.

Thanks

Aisne1917

[Jochen1000]

Sb

Hi,

let me try to help ...

First: these transfers from Luft or Marine to Heer (or here W-SS) were made necessary by the need to recruit more ground troops in the second half of the war. Some soldiers may have volunteered to change the branch but the majority was forced to do so. It is not uncommon to see these changes in a soldbuch.

Second: the word behind the 30 is Gew. or Gewehr = rifle. The entries on this page are about equipment generally. Not easy to read.

Third: the text on page 14 (I believe) is about an instruction or indoctrination concerning espionage and secrecy etc. – German soldiers were told how to behave in certain situations (like what to do when becoming a POW, what to do when separated from own troops etc.).

Hope it helps a little. One more thing. These transfers are faked often, it just makes a document more valuable if a guy changes from a boring Luft unit into an interesting W-SS one. So maybe check how many different W-SS stamps you have in it – the more the better.
It is a simple way to check if it is good but it is a beginning.

[Rotti]

Okay, small one:

30 Schuß Gewehr- Munition = 30 rounds of rifle ammo.

I have absolutely no idea what might be that extraordinary about 30 rounds of ammo that someone might have felt a need to make a Soldbuch entry out of this....it was wartime....guess most of you know how long thirty rounds last in a peaceful shooting match...

The entries look pretty good on the first sight. If (!) this is a fake, it´s made by someone who knows what he´s doing.
Is it possible to read the number on the stamps Page 19 and 24, last entries?
Might be interesting to compare it with the Feldpostübersicht.

[JYN]

Hello,

I had one Wehrpass and a Soldbuch from soldiers which
were transfered from Luftwaffe to WSS. Not uncomon.

He was probably taken prisoner by the FFI (Forces Françaises de l'Intérieur). Red stamp FFI.

JYN

[Aisne1917]

Hello and thanks for the infos.

I am adding the FP stamps of pages 19 and 24 as well as other pics of his Werhpass. I hope it will be helpfull. I am pretty confident of the originality, I am having soldbuch/Werhpass as well as his release US papers from Dachau where is stay for 2 years as war crime suspect (released cleared by war crime in 47). I will try to put pics in the week.
If taken by FFI forces, wouldn't he be keept in a French camp?







Thanks again for your time, I know it is hard work trying to find out things I always try by myself before asking for help :-) This is the way to progress...

Aisne1917

[Rotti]

concerning the Dachau imprisonment: A lot of SS POW were sent to Dachau ,especially when they were suspected to be war criminals . It didn´t matter if they were captured by french, british or US troops, they all went to the same places. (Same goes for SS men in soviet camps- but most of these went 6 feet under)
My grandfather in law was captured in Austria and brought to a POW camp at Attersee near Salzburg, In fall 1945 ,they took him to the Bad Aibling POW camp where he had to stay for almost 2 years, then he was taken to Dachau.
After they found out that he was no person of interest, he was released from one day to the next and returned home in the beginning of 1948.

Concerning the Feldpostnummer : It looks like 32215 A, right?

The Feldpost- number 32215 belonged to the Stab SS- Feldersatz Btl. 2 in the end of 1944 .No entry in the Feldpostübersicht , if this carried on til the end of the war.
The number belonged to "Das Reich" before...
Seems like you got a good one !

[Aisne1917]

Hello,

That's good that you were able to recover from the FP number at least it is clear now. For sure it was better for them to be in a US prisoner camp than in a Russian one.

Aisne1917

[Rotti]

Well, it´s always good to have stamps and documents with Feldpostnummer stamped in by several units. The regular counterfeiter buys a certain assortment of stamps in Poland (or: from poland, because that´s where most of them come from and the price/quality ratio is pretty good over there ) but not too many.
They may be rather cheap in Poland, but they still cost their money.
As most counterfeiters are not too much into perfection, they produce stampings which are somehow difficult to read or quite "universal". Most of the fake documents have in common, that the "interesting" Feldpostnumbers are unreadable or simply not there.

A custom made stamp will cost between 50 and 150$ , depending on what you want, so most fakers have a set of few stamps, mostly it´s only important that they show an eagle and a swastika.
Faking good material pays only fo high -Dollar documets, I suppose it´s more economic to fake a mass of 50-100$ Documents, instead on one or two real kick azz Wehrpasses for eg.g 500$ a piece.

Nevertheless, I really like the one you showed us here

[landsknechte]

Well, it´s always good to have stamps and documents with Feldpostnummer stamped in by several units. The regular counterfeiter buys a certain assortment of stamps in Poland (or: from poland, because that´s where most of them come from and the price/quality ratio is pretty good over there ) but not too many.
They may be rather cheap in Poland, but they still cost their money.
As most counterfeiters are not too much into perfection, they produce stampings which are somehow difficult to read or quite "universal". Most of the fake documents have in common, that the "interesting" Feldpostnumbers are unreadable or simply not there.

A custom made stamp will cost between 50 and 150$ , depending on what you want, so most fakers have a set of few stamps, mostly it´s only important that they show an eagle and a swastika.
Faking good material pays only fo high -Dollar documets, I suppose it´s more economic to fake a mass of 50-100$ Documents, instead on one or two real kick azz Wehrpasses for eg.g 500$ a piece.

Nevertheless, I really like the one you showed us here

Actually, you can get a custom rubber stamp for about $10, if you provide them with the artwork. It's not that difficult if you've got a bit of artistic talent. (I've got a tacklebox full of them that I use for reenacting paperwork, all of them based on my own artwork.) There are other tricks too that often look even more convincing, that don't even require that much effort.

That being said, this Soldbuch looks good to me.

[Rotti]

Oh my god....sad times coming up ,if fakers tools get that cheap.
Maybe it´s the same over here nowadays as my info is about 2 yrs old.

[landsknechte]

Oh my god....sad times coming up ,if fakers tools get that cheap.
Maybe it´s the same over here nowadays as my info is about 2 yrs old.

The tools are easy enough to come by, but the expertise is the difficult part. Soldbuchs seem like a relatively safe thing to collect, if you know what you're doing as a collector, because they're so complicated. It takes a tremendous amount of work to line up the dates and get all the details even remotely close. I would worry most about award certificates and simpler documents, and the possibility of someone adding a little something extra to an existing book. In the reenacting community, there are very few people that can fill out a Soldbuch well, and the products of even the best of them would be easily detectable by a reasonably educated collector. (How many people do you know that can manage multiple different styles of handwriting that look like the product of different people, let alone doing so in Sütterlinschrift?) Zweitschrift books are a bit more worrisome, IMHO.